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July 12, 2017 9:23 am  #341


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

nakahara wrote:

DramaQueen wrote:

No one, damaged or not, have a right to kill a child.
Being damaged is NO alibi.

Point.

P.S. Mr. Holmes acted in self-defence and his vis-à-vis was an odious blackmailer who used to harass people.

I absolutely agree with you, DramaQueen.
 

Thank you a lot, @nakahara!

Would you mind to take a look at my thoughts about "fourth brother"? 😉
 


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Men should be what they seem, 
Or those that be not, would they might seem none!

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November 13, 2017 4:42 pm  #342


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

besleybean wrote:

The show is named Sherlock and he is percentage wise the big hero and everyone's favourite character: he shot an unarmed, innocent man in the face...so I think we all cherry pick our moral high ground!

 
I assume you are referring to Sherlock shooting Magnussen.   "Unsrmed, *innocent* man" my big toe.

 

November 13, 2017 5:36 pm  #343


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

I stand by my comment: that's exactly what CAM was.
A gratuitous execution.


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November 13, 2017 6:43 pm  #344


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

I'm not so sure on the "innocent".  But I do agree - this is one of those cases where I'm prepared to see the TV universe differently, and I think it's quite forgivable there - not so much in real life!   It's complicated, though.  CAM was a despicable person, but it would have been extremely difficult to get him to court, and probably the worst he could be tried for was blackmail - and that might have been complicated by the fact that he didn't actually have letters, etc.  He got people killed, but indirectly, so there was no murder involved.   Even his threats against Mary might have been baseless.  We don't know exactly what he knew - he just needed John and Sherlock to believe it.  From Sherlock's point of view, protecting those close to him and the world in general, the only way to stop him was to kill him at that moment.  From my point of view, obviously it's not a good thing to execute people without a trial (or even with a trial - I'm not a fan of the death penalty), unless they are posing immediate threat, which an unarmed man wasn't. 
 

     Thread Starter
 

November 14, 2017 2:03 pm  #345


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

The problem as I see it, is that Sherlock's actions are being understood as part of a TV reality and therefore treated as such, whereas characters like John and Mary are treated as if their actions were done in real life. It's double-standard.


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November 14, 2017 5:39 pm  #346


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

I don't know - I think it's all pretty much shown as part of "TV reality" for all of them.  I suppose it's just up to us to not take it as a lesson for life! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

     Thread Starter
 

November 14, 2017 6:54 pm  #347


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

You're right Liberty, but I know exactly what Vhanja means...
For some it seems to continue with Eurus, too.
For a very sick lady, she gets a raw deal from some fans.


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November 15, 2017 10:16 am  #348


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

Liberty wrote:

I don't know - I think it's all pretty much shown as part of "TV reality" for all of them.  I suppose it's just up to us to not take it as a lesson for life! http://cdn.boardhost.com/emoticons/grin.png

Oh, I fully agree that it is all shown to be "TV reality", I'm talking more about how it is interpreted by some fans.

But, yes, there are more constructive ways to deal with your issues than to live on a diet of drugs or beat up your best friend.

 

Last edited by Vhanja (November 15, 2017 10:17 am)


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
http://i.imgur.com/NzWTIDd.png

Team Hudders!
 
 

November 16, 2017 2:51 pm  #349


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

Liberty wrote:

I'm not so sure on the "innocent".  But I do agree - this is one of those cases where I'm prepared to see the TV universe differently, and I think it's quite forgivable there - not so much in real life!   It's complicated, though.  CAM was a despicable person, but it would have been extremely difficult to get him to court, and probably the worst he could be tried for was blackmail - and that might have been complicated by the fact that he didn't actually have letters, etc.  He got people killed, but indirectly, so there was no murder involved.   Even his threats against Mary might have been baseless.  We don't know exactly what he knew - he just needed John and Sherlock to believe it.  From Sherlock's point of view, protecting those close to him and the world in general, the only way to stop him was to kill him at that moment.  From my point of view, obviously it's not a good thing to execute people without a trial (or even with a trial - I'm not a fan of the death penalty), unless they are posing immediate threat, which an unarmed man wasn't. 
 

Sherlock is just a re-imagination of a Victorian classic and some parts of it knowingly mirror Victorian attitudes to some problems, I think.

And Victorian + Edwardian attitude towards blackmailers was hardly favourable.

Let me cite you an excerpt from another, this time Edwardian mystery in which a man Pembury/Dobbs killed a blackmailer Ellis:

"And, between ourselves," said Thorndyke, when we were discussing the case some time after, "he deserved to escape. It was clearly a case of blackmail, and to kill a blackmailer—when you have no other defence against him—is hardly murder. As to Ellis, he could never have been convicted, and Dobbs, or Pembury, must have known it. But he would have been committed to the Assizes, and that would have given time for all traces to disappear. No, Dobbs was a man of courage, ingenuity and resource; and, above all, he knocked the bottom out of the great bloodhound superstition."

(R. Austin Freeman, "A Case of Premeditation")

HLV and the beginning of TST seeems like a distant echo to these opinions on blackmail....

 

Last edited by nakahara (November 16, 2017 3:21 pm)


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

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November 16, 2017 5:14 pm  #350


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

Thanks for that, Nakahara!  That's an interesting insight.  And that would explain Holmes' attitude towards Milverton and another reason why Moftiss that he had killed him (and Watson was covering for him).   I also wondered if Sherlock's Victorian/Edwardian attitude has been mixed with a more modern attitude towards the press, hence the change of Magnussen's occupation?

     Thread Starter
 

November 20, 2017 12:03 pm  #351


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

Liberty wrote:

   I also wondered if Sherlock's Victorian/Edwardian attitude has been mixed with a more modern attitude towards the press, hence the change of Magnussen's occupation?

I think the change in M´s occupation was realised for solely practical reasons. In the original, Milverton gained most of his blackmail material from unfaithful servants and staff of higher-class households. But domestic servants aren´t the feature of modern households most of the time, hence the need for a change - and so Magnussen obtains his blackmail material from journalists and such in this new adaptation... nothing to do with the attitutes towards the press, I think.
 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

http://49.media.tumblr.com/eb0e156f55878fcd6f89dcf91ae89811/tumblr_o0eyyzrphE1spvwrzo2_1280.gif
 

November 20, 2017 6:43 pm  #352


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

I think there is a bit of hostility towards some sections of the Press.


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February 26, 2018 5:39 pm  #353


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

I was so sad and confused all at the same time! Poor John was devastated; and so was I!! I cried for days when I saw that episode. But I was confused and pleasantly surprised when I saw the ending. Did you all know that Benedict really cried when he did that scene? He said he felt Sherlock's pain and it made him cry.


The Game is on

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February 26, 2018 6:03 pm  #354


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

Do you have a link to where you read or saw him say that? I'd be curious to read his own words.


http://orig11.deviantart.net/078e/f/2015/207/f/e/consulting_detective_2_by_sakuranakamura-d92vt40.pnghttp://orig08.deviantart.net/8f4e/f/2015/198/4/2/blogger_by_sakuranakamura-d91o4zv.png
Clueing for looks.
 

February 26, 2018 6:07 pm  #355


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

I think he cries at a lot!


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February 27, 2018 1:27 pm  #356


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

I saw it on YouTube I think you can look it up. Just go to YouTube and look up, I think it was 10 things you didn't know about Sherlock. I really cant remember though.


The Game is on

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February 27, 2018 1:40 pm  #357


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

Benedict is well-known for being able to cry on cue so I am not at all surprised that he cried in this scene. 
 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

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February 27, 2018 1:41 pm  #358


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

Indeed.


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February 27, 2018 7:02 pm  #359


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

Same here!
 

 

February 28, 2018 5:18 pm  #360


Re: The Final Problem: First impressions

Benedict is a glorious actor and he seems to be very humble and sweet! I would LOVE to meet him in person and tell him how much he inspires me! I've been writing scripts for a Sherlock episode (Not a real script obviously ) I just write it for myself and for some people who would like to see it. its a little silly, but fun! anyway, Benedict is absolutely my favorite actor in the world and I wouldn't want him any other way. He's funny, witty, and very good looking and he deserves every praise in the world!!! 


The Game is on

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