BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » How would your perfect S5 look like?

Elemental · December 7, 2017 1:50 pm

Okay, so the other day I wrote in another thread that I wasn't able to imagine what S5 could be about to get me really excited, more than "OMG-it's-Sherlock-I-don't-care-I'd-watch-a-5-hour-clip-of-him-doing-his-taxes". After TFP, I was having trouble actually visualizing how they could pick up the pace again when the big overarching questions have already been answered and the most important ACD stories have been filmed.

So, purely out of curiosity, I thought of launching the question here: how would a hypothetical S5 look for you so it would get you reaaaally excited and eager to watch it?

Detailed plots and crazy wish fulfillment are more than welcome. Let's imagine they air it maybe 4-5 years down the road, although if your ideal S5 happens in Sussex while they take care of bees, please get crazy.

(I don't intend to start a discussion about what would be plausible, theories or what should we expect if they eventually do it. I'm just curious about what would make each of you personally excited. Let's keep it light and fun!)

After thinking it through, I personally would bring Moriarty back. After TRF he wasn't really dead, but he was just not interested in Sherlock anymore, so he let Eurus do her little silly little game while all these years he's been focused on something more important, like hacking Bitcoin or creating evil AI, something that would allow him to rule the world and enslave Humanity.

So for once, he's not looking for Sherlock, but it happens the other way round: Sherlock casually stumbles upon something that "smells" like him, he starts investigating and he finds himself fighting Moriarty again (yay Andrew Scott!).

I'd love to see three REALLY SMART CASES through that overarching plot, S1&2 style. Like, really, really smart, more focused on the plot and mysteries than special effects or cheap jokes.

I'm a Johnlocker, so of course, there would be some looove in it too. Nothing too obvious, though, maybe even an established relationship where the first episode starts with John going to the surgery and saying goodbye to Sherlock with a casual kiss. If there were no Johnlock, I'd be happy just to see them back together in Baker Street, maybe having built an extra room somewhere for Rosie.

I'd LOVE to find out that Mary was evil all the time

I might also like seeing Eurus more or less functional, even inside Sherrinford, but being able to speak and interact with people, maybe even Sherlock consulting her during cases and she giving him slightly-lunatic-but-super-smart advice.

Mycroft must get a girlfriend in S5. We would get a few scenes of Sherlock and John pissing him off because he would be all awkward trying to be romantic. I also want more Mr. and Mrs. Holmes interacting with Sherlock. It's just too cute.

A small appearance from Irene Adler might work for me too. Maybe she's indirectly involved in one of the cases?

And after they defeat Moriarty in S05E03, John would propose to Sherlock and they'd live happily ever after.

Hahaha I got all giddy writing this. I hope I become a multi-mega-millionaire and I can build a Sherrinford kind of fortress, then kidnap all the actors and crew, then force them to film my version of the events.

How would your perfect S5 look like?

SusiGo · December 7, 2017 2:21 pm

This is a lovey idea for a thread, Elemental. I will have to think about it but one thing is sure: Sherlock and John must be together. Full stop. No new girlfriend or wife for John and a sad lonely Sherlock in 221b. This would be a no-go for me.

Since I am one of the "founders" of EMP theory I would like to see what really happened outside Sherlock's MP for a change.

If everything but TAB was real, my biggest wishes are:
- bring back the Sherlock and John show most people fell in love with
- write coherent plots for a change without at least three characters being able to foresee the future

I am sure I can think of more if you give me some time. And, yes, a nice love story for Molly and Greg is overdue.

Vhanja · December 8, 2017 7:14 am

Lovely idea for a thread?

As for how I wish S5 to be,my question back at you would be - my fantasy S5 or a more realistic one?

What I would love, though, would be - as mentioned in another thread - more backstory on the relationship between Sherlock and Mycroft. I would also love more backstory on John. And even though it was implied in the ending montage, I would love to see Sherlock and John being more at peace with both themselves and one another.

Elemental · December 8, 2017 9:29 am

SusiGo: glad you like the idea! Yeah, I'm with you in the no more lonely Sherlock team. No more angst, at least not between them!

And do you mean Greg with Molly? That would be really cute.

Vhanja: the fantasy one! Indulge in your craziest wishes and theories! I love the idea of getting more backstory on Sherlock and Mycroft's relationship.

Yitzock · December 8, 2017 5:27 pm

Interesting ideas all around...this has got me thinking.

While there are a lot of Doyle stories that have been adapted, there are still some that haven't, some of which I have read and some of which I haven't. The Silver Blaze, The Red-Headed League and The Noble Bachelor come to mind (I think all 3 still haven't been completely adapted). And since I wrote a fanfic last year based on The Noble Bachelor but before series 4 came out (so it had a different outcome for Mary), I'm curious how Steven and Mark would handle it in comparison to what I did with it. I'm sure they'd be able to extend it more than I did. On somewhat of a personal level, I'm curious what their spin on it would be compared to mine.

I think Euros would definitely appear, and that's what I would want. Maybe we'd see her pull off some other disguise to get out of Sherrinford to see the others. Maybe Sherlock and/or John wouldn't recognize her at first when she comes to 221B, but then one of them figures it out first and waits for the other to realize that it's her. That's not a whole plot, but a fun moment that I would enjoy seeing.

Greg getting together with Molly could be fun, I agree. Molly's crush on Sherlock seems like it could realistically be passing.

Sherlock and John are raising the baby now. While we've gotten some hints at what Sherlock is like as a babysitter, I would enjoy some more sweet and funny moments related to that. Again, this isn't an entire episode's plot, but something I would enjoy seeing included in the episodes. Maybe Mrs. Hudson would get in on the action. They could think they've left the baby alone to long, only to discover that Mrs. Hudson has had everything under control all along.

Even though Morirarty is dead, since he's the virus in Sherlock's brain, I think it would interesting to see him appear in Sherlock's thought during a case or two. There could be some tension there, perhaps getting him to think certain ways that he might not want to think about or acknowledge but has to in order to solve something that's right in front of him.

That's all I can think of for now.

besleybean · December 8, 2017 6:11 pm

I'd take anything that gave us more Moriarty, I'm that shallow...they know they got rid of him far too soon.
Then again I just love Eurus and would like to see her character developed and specifically her relationship with Sherlock.

Vhanja · December 8, 2017 9:39 pm

Yes, I would love to see Moriarty again. It was only when he "returned" in TFP that I realised how much I had missed him. However, I don't really want him to go "Haha, not dead after all" nor do I want him included in many more after-death plots. Both are a bit too cliche if it's done too often. And there aren't really room for many more flashbacks either, seeing as there aren't any scenes between Sherlock and Moriarty we haven't already seen.

So not sure how they could do it and do it well. But would still love to see more Moriarty.

Yitzock · December 8, 2017 10:10 pm

Yeah, that's why I was thinking it would be interesting if he appeared in Sherlock's thoughts somehow. Or that he left videos or something like in The Final Problem and has someone carrying out his wishes for some sort of plan. I think a flashback of that kind of thing would even be OK as long as it didn't take away from the rest of the episode's plot too much.

kgreen20 · December 9, 2017 1:00 am

Vhanja wrote:
Lovely idea for a thread?

As for how I wish S5 to be,my question back at you would be - my fantasy S5 or a more realistic one?

What I would love, though, would be - as mentioned in another thread - more backstory on the relationship between Sherlock and Mycroft. I would also love more backstory on John. And even though it was implied in the ending montage, I would love to see Sherlock and John being more at peace with both themselves and one another.

I, too, want more backstory on John, much more! We actually have more backstory on Mary Morstan than we do on John, and that's not right! That gap really needs to be filled in, and Season 5 will be the perfect season to take care of that. I want to learn about his boyhood (complete with flashback scenes of his childhood--it should be easy enough for Moffat and Gatiss to find a little boy with straight blond hair to play little John), his years in college and then as house officer, and his 3 years in the army, especially the day he was shot at the end. I want to know about the circumstances that led to his life-altering injury, and why he couldn't stay in the army once his shoulder had healed. We know why canon Dr. Watson was discharged from the army, but we don't know why John was.

More than that, I want John to go through the same thing that Sherlock goes through in Season 4. I want him to go through a symbolic journey just as Sherlock did before him in "The Final Problem", one that gives him a chance to face and then come to terms with his past, and make peace with it. Given his trust issues and other issues, it's a good bet that Sherlock is not the only one with demons underneath the road he walks. John probably has them, too (read this blog: http://esterbrook.tumblr.com/post/104562523718/something-has-been-niggling-at-the-back-of-my-mind). I want John's friends--Sherlock, Mycroft, Mrs. Hudson, Mollie, and even Sherlock and Mycroft's parents--to give him love and support while he's doing so; he will need it. Once he has faced and overcome those demons, it'll be easier for him to be at peace with himself. Since he is now raising Rosie as a single father, he needs that.

I also think that he should be fighting for his life this time. Sherlock has twice been hospitalized, fighting for his life, in the 3rd and 4th seasons. On the next go-around, I think it should be John's turn.

And I want Sherlock and Mycroft's parents to become parental figures to John and honorary grandparents to Rosie. Since John's parents are apparently dead, since there's a real possibility that he did not have a good relationship with them during his growing-up years, and since all he has is an alcoholic sister he doesn't get on with and at least one cousin he's probably not close to, the elder Holmeses would be great substitute parents for John, and marvelous grandparents for his daughter. Needless to say, Mrs. Hudson is also an honorary grandparent to Rosie, and Molly is her honorary aunt. (Of course, for either of those things to be able to happen, Season 5 has to be filmed while Una Stubbs and Benedict's parents are still alive! So it needs to be done within the next few years, not a whole decade or more down the road.)

Last edited by kgreen20 (December 9, 2017 1:44 am)

Yitzock · December 9, 2017 1:46 am

Good points. We've seen quite a lot of Sherlock's childhood (and rightfully so, since he's the titular character of the show), but it would be nice to see more of John's backstory before the war. The only other hints we've gotten were his relationship with Sholto and a bit with Mike Stanford. There isn't much of his past that has been revealed beyond the military, which can consume a lot of person's life I suppose, but as a doctor I'm sure there'd be things to tell, even outside of medicine, too.

kgreen20 · December 10, 2017 2:13 am

And the info on his CV, given in "The Blind Banker" (read http://wellingtongoose.tumblr.com/post/56726002080/explaining-john-watsons-cv). We know where John grew up, where he went to school and college, and where he served as house officer (and what years that he was in each). But even with that additional info, we still don't know nearly enough.

Last edited by kgreen20 (December 10, 2017 2:17 am)

Liberty · December 10, 2017 9:10 am

I'm sure this will be unpopular, but given that we've had such a long background story for Sherlock, I'm not sure I particularly need to see it for John too.

Also, not sure I can really explain this, but we've been asked to accept that John is violent, etc., and have that be OK in that universe. If we then go back and are shown a compelling reason for it in his past, it's almost as if we were wrong to accept it, even though we were told to at the time. It was different for Sherlock's backstory because the aspect that was being explained was more acceptable anyway. It would also be different if the characters (and perhaps John himself) had been horrified by his violence in previous episodes. Then it would be good for it to have an explanation. But because it has been accepted by the characters and us, it feels as if it shouldn't now be made into something that needs explanation/justification (not the correct words, but I'm struggling to find them!).

As for the trust issues, I'm not sure I really see them to the extent that others do. He seems to trust Sherlock implicitly (actually very soon after meeting him). He trusts Mary, and after he finds out she lied to him, he trusts her again. I don't see him having trust issues with the other major characters, and he seems to get on OK with minor characters and form relationships, and there's evidence of a strong friendship in the past. (I know he's introduced to us as having trust issues, but I don't see evidence of it being a major thing for him). So I don't feel it needs explaining.

But having said that, there's a lot of ground to explore if the writers wanted to look at his background, and I'd be happy to see it - just a bit wary of the above, and not sure it's necessary.

There is a child in the mix now too, so still plenty of room for drama close to home. I love the idea of elderly Sherlock and John, but obviously I'd like to see a bit more before then.

Vhanja · December 10, 2017 10:24 am

I see your point about John's violence. But I don't necessarily need to see a "reason" for that, but backstory in general. There are many fanfics author that assumes John's parents (or at least his father) was abusive, and they say it's implied in his official blog. I am not sure what they base that on, but it would be interesting to learn more about his parents anyhow.

I am myself a bit weary of drama involving Rosie. It would just be too cliche if someone kidnapped or threatened her. Then again, I guess that can be done if it's written well.

But, yes, I agree with John being the one who ought to be in danger now. Not because someone wants to get to Sherlock, but someone actually targetting him. Or, the other way around, Sherlock being in real danger (not danger he has acted and planted, but something unforeseen) and John actually making a proper effort and being a proper friend and hero to save him.

I think I have read too many fanfics...

Rache · December 11, 2017 1:19 am

Elemental wrote:
Mycroft must get a girlfriend in S5. We would get a few scenes of Sherlock and John pissing him off because he would be all awkward trying to be romantic. I also want more Mr. and Mrs. Holmes interacting with Sherlock. It's just too cute.

I smiled widely while reading this. Great idea, that would be so funny.

Good idea for a thread. For the start, I think I could be fine with REALLY smart cases, as somebody else wished for. Not so much action etc., but a great plot, good dialogue and interesting storytelling.

kgreen20 · December 11, 2017 3:38 am

Vhanja wrote:
I see your point about John's violence. But I don't necessarily need to see a "reason" for that, but backstory in general. There are many fanfics author that assumes John's parents (or at least his father) was abusive, and they say it's implied in his official blog. I am not sure what they base that on, but it would be interesting to learn more about his parents anyhow.

I am myself a bit weary of drama involving Rosie. It would just be too cliche if someone kidnapped or threatened her. Then again, I guess that can be done if it's written well.

But, yes, I agree with John being the one who ought to be in danger now. Not because someone wants to get to Sherlock, but someone actually targetting him. Or, the other way around, Sherlock being in real danger (not danger he has acted and planted, but something unforeseen) and John actually making a proper effort and being a proper friend and hero to save him.

I think I have read too many fanfics...

I'll go with John being targeted personally. By someone from his past seeking revenge against him, or an evil psychopath like Culverton Smith who targets him. Perhaps both.

Elemental · December 11, 2017 12:44 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Yes, I would love to see Moriarty again. It was only when he "returned" in TFP that I realised how much I had missed him. However, I don't really want him to go "Haha, not dead after all" nor do I want him included in many more after-death plots. Both are a bit too cliche if it's done too often. And there aren't really room for many more flashbacks either, seeing as there aren't any scenes between Sherlock and Moriarty we haven't already seen.

So not sure how they could do it and do it well. But would still love to see more Moriarty.

Yeah, it wasn't until during those few seconds in TFP that I realized how OK I was with Moriarty coming back from the dead. After HLV, I was like "oh, come on, Moriarty again? Think about something better!". But then the "better" came in TST and TLD and I realized that it's better the devil you know.

I think what would be tiring for me would be seeing him as his usual, Sherlock-obsessed self. I would like some development for his character as well, and something interesting could be him actually losing interest in Sherlock, as in Sherlock has to chase him or call his attention in some way.

The idea of Moriarty moving on to something bigger and ignoring Sherlock for years was actually done in a fic I read a while ago (I won't say which one so I don't spoil it for you guys, but you're welcome to ask via PM, it's a fantastic fic) and I think it worked pretty well.

I personally wouldn't care too much for Moriarty as a figure from Sherlock's imagination. I think he's more interesting as a complex, alive villain, and it goes more in the plot-heavy, reality-focused direction that I'd like the show to take.

Rache · December 13, 2017 12:10 am

I think I wouldn't need Moriarty back. But what about maybe a "new" "Moriarty" as he is known from canon. There could be a professor in mathematics as the new baddie? He is not called Moriarty but could bring with him the classical Moriartys traits.

I would like to see some backgroundstory on John, although I wouldn't be disappointed if not. Just a little bit here and there. I think we should know more about what happened in Afghanistan to him and his work at the military. Other things may be kept a mystery... I don't need to know whats up with his parents for example.

Elemental · January 18, 2018 10:56 am

kgreen20 wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
I see your point about John's violence. But I don't necessarily need to see a "reason" for that, but backstory in general. There are many fanfics author that assumes John's parents (or at least his father) was abusive, and they say it's implied in his official blog. I am not sure what they base that on, but it would be interesting to learn more about his parents anyhow.

I am myself a bit weary of drama involving Rosie. It would just be too cliche if someone kidnapped or threatened her. Then again, I guess that can be done if it's written well.

But, yes, I agree with John being the one who ought to be in danger now. Not because someone wants to get to Sherlock, but someone actually targetting him. Or, the other way around, Sherlock being in real danger (not danger he has acted and planted, but something unforeseen) and John actually making a proper effort and being a proper friend and hero to save him.

I think I have read too many fanfics...
I'll go with John being targeted personally. By someone from his past seeking revenge against him, or an evil psychopath like Culverton Smith who targets him. Perhaps both.

kgreen20: I love the idea of John being targeted for someone from his past. We would be able to know a bit more of his backstory and it would be cool that he being in danger wasn't just a consequence of being Sherlock's friend. The only problem with that would be, for me, going back to the dynamics of "save John Watson", which I think has been over-exploited for the last two seasons.

TEH: The bonfire.
TSoT: It's all about how Sherlock Loves John and will protect him forever.
HLV: Saving Mary so he can save John. Thinking about what's best for John.
TST: Searching for Mary so he can help her and help John.
TLD: Saving John Watson from himself.
TLP: Saving John from Eurus.

In that sense, I'm with Vhanja and would very much like to see John saving Sherlock in a very unequivocal way, instead of just supporting him.

SusiGo · January 18, 2018 11:16 am

I agree. It is about time for John to save Sherlock and not just because he is told by his dead wife to do so. And I would also welcome an interesting case in which we see them as equals - something like their chemistry in TFP but less bizarre. A really great case with lots of laughter and chases and maybe some parentlock in between.

besleybean · January 18, 2018 4:53 pm

I don't appear to have said it on this page yet, so I promise I shall try to say it only once on here!
I will just take any S 5...