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July 10, 2017 5:17 pm  #1

Besleybean's re-watching of the whole show with pointers to S 4.

So to one of my least watched episodes!
Of course one of Steven's finest and certainly his personal favourite...But I have problems with 'The Woman'!
Yet I must state right from the outset; having just re-watched for the first time in years and possibly( because of note taking) being more objective...I really find it difficult to ignore the attraction between Irene and Sherlock and wonder how anybody could not see it.
Anyhow, this is not my mission...links to S 4:
Obviously this episode is all about the use of phones, which again feature largely in TFP.
Plus the use of signature tunes:  Jim's on his phone and Sherlock writing Irene's theme, which features so prominently in TFP.
Oh and Jim obviouly says' I'm Moriarty ' on the phone to Irene which kind of reminded me of him introducing TFP.
Moriarty says to Sherlock " you'll be hearing from me, Sherlock", which of course he did post mortem in TFP.
Our first view of Irene is of her on her phone..of course our last contact with her, in TFP is texting Sherlock.
The opening sequence of different clients in this episode, reminded me of all the visiting clients at the end of TFP.
Sherlock shown stuffing his face reminded me of him eating ginger nuts in TST.
The classic '1895' reference made me think of the classic 'Rathbone' reference in TFP.
Greg tells the new detective to give Sherlock his time and listen to everything he tells he's already on his way to being the good man he is by TFP.
Sherlock's deduction about the driver reminded me of the one regarding Molly's coffin in TFP.
Mycroft being referred to as the queen, reminded me of the 'Calm down, dear' line in TFP.
Mycroft's "I'll be mother" and Sherlock's " and there's a whole childhood in a nut shell," comment made me think of Mycroft taking care of family affairs, as we see in TFP.
Mycroft's " how would you know?" line tells me that at this point, Sherlock is still a virgin...Eurus deduces he isn't by TFP.
Sherlock says "you see but you do not observe" to John and of course Eurus says this to Sherlock in TFP.
Sherlock and John's 'mock fight' becomes a real fight in TLD: Sherlock just takes it, both times.
Irene refers to Sherlock as damaged and delusonal...which may be a fair summary of Sherlock's dealing with Redbeard, as we discover in TFP.
"Somebody loves you", Irene says to Sherlock, meaning John and we see that love in TFP.
Irene isn't sure if Sherlock knows where to look, well according to Eurus in TFP, by then he's done more than look!
"I like detectives" says Irene... She still likes Sherlock by TFP, according to John!
The CIA guy giving a countdown to shooting John, obviously reminded me of the various TFP countdowns.
Irene drugs Sherlock, as Eurus does in TFP.
Of course we get the introduction of Irene's text notification, which we hear in TLD.
"Family is all we have in the end, Mycroft Holmes ", Mrs H says.  This of course reminds me of Mycroft saying "This is family" in TFP.
Sherlock reacts with "Oh dear Lord", when he sees Molly, he doesn't feel this way about her by TFP.
Sherlock says Molly is serious about her new boyfriend...certainly by TFP she still loves Sherlock!
Yet by TFP she still seems to have the 'long term forlon hopes" that Sherlock mentions here.
John asks Sherlock if he ever replies to Irene's texts, well we know the answer by TLD!
Sherlock shuts John out of his room, when he thinks Irene is TFP he is no longer shutting John out.
Sherlock says "You needn't have come in, Molly"...he's already being nicer to her. By TFP he can't bear to hurt her.
Sherlock 'recognises' 'Irene' from her body...according to Eurus in TFP, he gets to know her body a bit better!
Sherlock asks Mycroft "Is there something wrong with us?" Well by TFP we certainly learn why Sherlock grew up thinking 'Caring was not an advantage'.
Mycroft says of Irene to Sherlock. " you barely knew her". Again according to Eurus in TFP, he did know her-in the Bible way!
So Mycroft set up a trap: he offers Sherlock a cigarette to see if he is upset about Irene.  Links to his little tests of Sherlock's memories, he refers to in TFP.
Jeannette says to John: "You'll do anything for Sherlock Holmes". He certainly will by TFP.
Then we have our first hearing of Irene's tune, which Sherlock plays for Eurus in TFP.
John and Mrs H discuss Sherlock's relationship history and realise they would never know what went on in his brain.
Irene tells John she won't tell Sherlock she's alive as he'd come after her.  Well by TLD he's texting her at least!
John tells us of Irene, "you texted her a lot". She's certainly still texting by TLD at least.
" He never replies" says Irene...well he does by TLD.
She wonders if him replying makes her special: according to Eurus in TFP, it does!
Irene is 'gay' and John states he isn't.  But as Irene says 'Look at us both".  By TFP, they still both love Sherlock.
We see the revenge Sherlock takes out on the CIA man for hurting Mrs H.  This links to wanting to save her from the grenade in TFP.
Sherlock tells John he's restoring balance to the Universe.  Kind of reminded me of in TFP, him telling Eurus just went the wrong way the first time.
Sherlock throwing the CIA guy out the window, reminded me of the boys eventually being blown out of the window in TFP.
 Sherlock refers to Greg as 'detective inspector', by TFP he is definitely Greg.
John asks Sherlock what he feels about Irene being he's still texting her in TLD, presumably good!
Sherlock texts Irene 'Happy New Year', which made me think of Irene texting him 'Happy Birthday' in TLD.
John asks Sherlock if he will be seeing Irene again.  Well of course he does.  But by TLD, it's 'just texting'.
Irene says she knew Sherlock would keep her secret.  Well he manages to keep her secret until TLD.
Irene says she likes to know people will be on her side when she needs them...she's still needing Sherlock by TLD.
Sherlock says he's never begged for mercy in his life...this kind of changes by TLD.
Mycroft is crushed when he learns the Flight of the Dead has been leaked...presumably over the loss of life- we see how he reacts to death in TFP.
Irene asks Sherlock if he's ever had anyone.  By TFP, Eurus deduces Sherlock's had Irene.
Irene mentions if it was their very last night...well I guess the night in Karachi may have been their last night.
Sherlock says "It's not the end of the world", so maybe he knew he would see Irene again.
(Sorry, I know the last two are comments on ASIB itself, rather than pointers to S 4- I am trying to avoid these comments)
The CIA guy says he feels like putting a bullet in Sherlock's brain.  Sherlock threatens to do that to himself in TFP.
Obviously we have the massive link of the plane in ASIB to the plane in TFP.
The ASIB plane is unmanned.  Of course Eurus isn't really on the plane in TFP and she sends an unmanned drone.
Mycroft refers to Irene as a 'damsel in distress'. The ultimate one is Eurus in TFP.
Mycroft says he drove Irene into Sherlock's path... a bit like he confesses to allowing Moriarty to meet Eurus in TFP.
Irene refers to having Sherlock on a leash, she seems to have him on a leash by TLD.
Mycroft refers to Moriarty being desperate to get his attention: well, that comes to fruit in TFP.
So Mycroft and Sherlock are 'The Ice Man' and 'The Virgin'...I don't think either of those titles are appropriate by TFP.
Mycroft says the file on Irene is closed forever. So maybe that's why she feels free to text Sherlock in TLD.
Mycroft says Irene will thrive..she seems to be by TFP.
Mycroft tells John Sherlock wanted to be a pirate: this takes us straight to Redbeard in TFP.
Mycroft concocts a kinder story about Irene to tell Sherlock:  as he did with his parents over Eurus.  Presumably the family had the discussion of: What do we tell Sherlock?
John considers telling Sherlock 'the truth', unlike Mycroft who blurts out about 'the other one' to John in TLD.
John asks Sherlock if Irene  ever texted him again.  Well by TLD, we know she did!
Sherlock dressed as the Arab executioner, reminded me of his dressing up in TFP.
By TLD, Irene appears to have remained: THE Woman.

EDIT: returned after posting this yesterday.  
Why do I always miss the bleedin'obvious?!
Amazing what a visit to Twitter brings:
Somebody tweeted the famous Vatican Cameos scene.
Reminded me: of course John says Vatican Cameos to Sherlock in TFP.

EDIT:  returned today for another one.  I reliased I hadn't said enough about the Molly situation at Xmas:  Sherlock visibly shows he is upset at being so horrible towards her...but he is very restrained, considering his smashing of the coffin in TFP,

Last edited by besleybean (July 12, 2017 7:35 am)


July 10, 2017 5:58 pm  #2

Re: Besleybean's re-watching of the whole show with pointers to S 4.

Wow, loads of links to S4 in this one! 

Interesting point about Sherlock keeping Irene's secret: I wasn't really thinking about that much in TLD, but it's interesting that John jumps to the conclusion that Irene is alive, even though I think the last he knew, he was covering up her death for Sherlock.   Have I missed something, and John actually knew Irene was alive, or did he work it out for himself?  If he worked it out ... well done to him!   Anyway, I wonder if Sherlock's obfuscating when John first comments on the text, is Sherlock still trying to hide the fact that Irene is alive.   I'd put it down more to him being embarrassed at being caught out.   Maybe it's a bit of both. 

You're making me think about how Sherlock majorly cocked up over the flight of the dead, and I suppose saving the girl on the plane, even if it's imaginary, helps to compensate for that.  (Although saving Eurus is real, of course!). 


July 10, 2017 6:58 pm  #3

Re: Besleybean's re-watching of the whole show with pointers to S 4.

Good point, Liberty.

     Thread Starter

July 14, 2017 2:15 am  #4

Re: Besleybean's re-watching of the whole show with pointers to S 4.

Seeing as Irene's text alert is very distinctive, and that John heard it repeatedly during the events of "A Scandal in Belgravia," he probably still remembers it during the events of "The Lying Detective."  It wasn't hard for him to put two and two together when he hears it for the first time in a long time, during his visit to Sherlock's flat after Culverton Smith's arrest.


July 14, 2017 6:04 am  #5

Re: Besleybean's re-watching of the whole show with pointers to S 4.

Oh, I think he definitely recognises the text alert, but given that he believes Irene is dead, the obvious conclusion would be that it wasn't her (perhaps Sherlock had kept the sound for sentimental reasons and it attached it to someone/thing else).   This might be a case of him now knowing Sherlock so much better, that he can see that he was "lying".  On top of that, he guesses that the text would be for Sherlock's birthday.  It's pretty perceptive of him.  Perhaps they've rubbed off on each other a bit over the years.  (No, not in that way!).


July 14, 2017 7:09 am  #6

Re: Besleybean's re-watching of the whole show with pointers to S 4.

Now you are giving me thoughts, Liberty.

"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)


July 14, 2017 7:17 am  #7

Re: Besleybean's re-watching of the whole show with pointers to S 4.

For gawd sake Liberty, don't encourage them!

     Thread Starter

July 15, 2017 1:08 am  #8

Re: Besleybean's re-watching of the whole show with pointers to S 4.



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