BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

besleybean · May 20, 2017 11:32 am

Exactly, if anything, their shared grief bonds them closer.

Vhanja · May 20, 2017 12:46 pm

I agree. Mary creates a development in their relationship, in particular because it leads to them for the first time actually talking to each other. I do think that is more interesting than if their relationship had been more static as in S1 and S2.

SusiGo · May 20, 2017 5:05 pm

I disagree. I think it was Mary who disrupted their relationship. It was her unnecessary death that led to "anyone but you", to Sherlock drugging himself for weeks, to John beating and kicking Sherlock. It was her video that nearly killed Sherlock (because without Mycroft's car and Mrs Hudson's random remark about the knife on the mantelpiece John would not have found the DVD and Sherlock would have been killed by CS).

besleybean · May 20, 2017 5:08 pm

I think Sherlock's drugginess was at least partly to catch CS.

Yitzock · May 20, 2017 5:25 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I disagree. I think it was Mary who disrupted their relationship. It was her unnecessary death that led to "anyone but you", to Sherlock drugging himself for weeks, to John beating and kicking Sherlock. It was her video that nearly killed Sherlock (because without Mycroft's car and Mrs Hudson's random remark about the knife on the mantelpiece John would not have found the DVD and Sherlock would have been killed by CS).

Without conflict or tension there wouldn't be much of a story, though, and their friendship became stronger and more meaningful because of what they went through. The fact that they were able to get through it and realize that even with everything that happened, they still couldn't live without each other. And they had a better understanding of themselves and each other. The whole "it is what it is" and the remarks about everyone being human and Sherlock coming to care about that shows the growth that their, especially Sherlock's, character has gone through.

besleybean · May 20, 2017 5:37 pm

Sherlock changes remarkably: from the needy nerd who requires a team of carers...he has grown into a healer and supporter.

Liberty · May 20, 2017 6:37 pm

Good point.

Yes, Mary's death forced them apart (not her fault, obviously!), but it got them to that lovely scene together in TLD, which would have been difficult to imagine in S1/2. (Not that I'd have wanted it in S1 or 2. It's all the better for the wait, I think, and the knowledge that it's something different in their relationship).

kgreen20 · May 20, 2017 6:41 pm

besleybean wrote:
Sherlock changes remarkably: from the needy nerd who requires a team of carers...he has grown into a healer and supporter.

A healer and supporter who will need to be there for John if and when there's a Season 5. The shoe really needs to be on the other foot next time.

besleybean · May 20, 2017 7:24 pm

I'm not sure I would mind which foot the is shoe is on, if only we could get more!

kgreen20 · May 20, 2017 7:28 pm

Yeah, really! But I want the shoe to be on the other foot next time. John's got demons underneath the road he walks, too. He needs to face them and come to terms with them, and I also think that he should fight for his life in a hospital next time, while he's at it.

Last edited by kgreen20 (May 20, 2017 7:31 pm)

besleybean · May 20, 2017 8:40 pm

Wow, quite a tall order!

Vhanja · May 21, 2017 6:51 am

Yeah, I wouldn't mind more John myself. However, if we ever have more, I would like to see more of John supporting and helping Sherlock - we have seen plenty the other way around, it's John's turn to step up now.

besleybean · May 21, 2017 7:33 am

John has always been there when it mattered.
But he's human and has his little stomps.

Vhanja · May 21, 2017 1:19 pm

Yeah, and I think that's fine. But if we have a S5, I wouldn't mind if it balances out a bit more.

besleybean · May 21, 2017 1:21 pm

I'd accept Mary back form the dead..if it meant we got an S 5!

Schmiezi · May 21, 2017 5:27 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Yeah, and I think that's fine. But if we have a S5, I wouldn't mind if it balances out a bit more.

My thoughts exactly. I think S4 would have left many fans with a better feeling if it were clear that we will get to see more of their relationship after Mary.

besleybean · May 21, 2017 5:53 pm

I suspect that was an unfortunate matter of timing.

SusiGo · May 21, 2017 5:55 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
Yeah, and I think that's fine. But if we have a S5, I wouldn't mind if it balances out a bit more.
My thoughts exactly. I think S4 would have left many fans with a better feeling if it were clear that we will get to see more of their relationship after Mary.

Indeed. Because nearly all of TFP was about Eurus. The only domestic scene we got was about two seconds at the end during Mary's "final blessing".

Schmiezi · May 21, 2017 6:12 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Schmiezi wrote:
Vhanja wrote:
Yeah, and I think that's fine. But if we have a S5, I wouldn't mind if it balances out a bit more.
My thoughts exactly. I think S4 would have left many fans with a better feeling if it were clear that we will get to see more of their relationship after Mary.
Indeed. Because nearly all of TFP was about Eurus. The only domestic scene we got was about two seconds at the end during Mary's "final blessing".

And those two seconds are beautiful. I want more of it!

SusiGo · May 21, 2017 6:18 pm

Indeed.