SusiGo wrote:

Well, I tried to keep it going but many discussions have been cut short by people saying the show is over.

Which is really silly. 
People still discuss the original series of Star Trek and that aired for 3 seasons in the 60's! 
There are still panel discussions at conventions for TV and movies that were made decades ago.
When it comes to intellectual discourse on a work of art/entertainment I must quote Sherlock himself - The game is NEVER over.
 

Bravo, tonnaree! 

I've been rather sad about the lack of discussion too.  I think there's a number of things going on.  Yes, there has been an ending, and although it doesn't mean things can't be discussed (of course they can!) it does mean that we know how it ends (at least the current run of series) and there's not nearly as much room for speculation as there was after the previous series'.   We know Mary isn't a villain, and that Sherlock and John aren't conspiring against her, for instance. 

I think in general, Sherlock was flavour of the month a few years ago, and now has suffered a backlash (as has Benedict, to some extent). I've seen this happen before, with other shows - it just becomes less fashionable to like them.

I think it has been very Moffat-influenced, perhaps more than it was at the beginning, and he seems to be quite a divisive writer in some ways.  I have mixed feelings about Doctor Who, so I understand people who don't like his direction.  (I don't want to spoil anything for people who haven't watched it, but I felt that Clara became much more important than she "should" be in DW, perhaps in a similar way to Mary in Sherlock.  It bothered me more with Clara than with Mary, but I can see why Mary would bother people).  Moffat seems to love things to be emotional and personal, he loves to go back to childhood, family, etc. and he did that in a big way in S4.  I have seen an awful lot of anti-Moffat sentiment in the Doctor Who fandom, and also people who love him as a writer but not a showrunner.  He was very much showrunning Sherlock. 

The Johnlock thing (as in the group that believed it would happen in the show, rather than the group who shipped them) was huge in the fandom, as far as I could see, and now that aspect has been kind of debunked, there is nowhere to go with that (although long may the shipping continue!  But I understand it's not quite the same without the hope/belief that it will actually happen). 

S4 was self-admittedly self-indulgent - Moftiss have claimed to be writing for themselves, not fans or the general public, and described this one as "insane wish fulfilment".   They went over the top in that direction, I think.  I loved it, but not everybody did. 

And finally (although I'm sure there are lots of other reasons!), it was bigged up a bit too much, for fans rather than the general public, at least.   It wasn't really groundbreaking or TV history that the same actress played different parts in disguise - it was just a very fun and clever twist.  Although I loved what we got, I'd expected more of an "event". 

I'm thinking the same, Liberty. There are less room for speculation because we have received quite a lot of answers. Since the writers don't know if there will be more, they wrote a possible end to the series. So there are no cliffhanger to discuss.

That doesn't mean that there aren't anything to discuss, of course, but that explains the lack of acitivity for me.

Also, I wouldn't say the reviews were bad, but that they were mixed. Which makes sense to me, as that is how I see the fandom as well.

Yes, I guess it's difficult for me when S 4 was mt favourite and I was happy with everything we were given and nothing was missing  foe me...except more episodes!

Of course not. But those who do should be allowed to discuss them instead of being told at once that everything has been answered and the show is over. 

Vhanja, of course this is TV reality but it still has to make sense within its own universe. And there are a lot of things in S4 that do not make any sense at all. Maybe this is the wrong thread for this discussion and we should continue it elsewhere. 
 

Of course not. But ist is quite frustrating if every time some people want to discuss plotholes or inconsistencies or whatever, other people tell them that they are happy with what they got. Which is fine but it does not belong in a discussion about said subjects. 

Good point. 

“The heart and the soul of it isn’t just Sherlock Holmes. That’s really, really important. It’s the friendship between Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson. The best friendship ever depicted in fiction. (…) [You fall in love] with the fact that they adore each other. These two extraordinary, brilliant opposites, who have a simple uncomplicated mutual affection that happened instantly, and remained unchanged over decades, and was never discussed at all. That’s what people genuinely fall in love with. You cannot discuss Sherlock Holmes without discussing Doctor Watson.”

- Steven Moffat, 2010

And then it was not enough anymore and they chose to introduce Marvellous Mary Morstan ... This is exactly why people have problems in accepting the direction they took with Mary. They were given this and they loved it as much as Mark and Steven did. And in S3 and especially in S4 this adoration was gone, the uncomplicated mutual affection was gone. 
 

Last edited by SusiGo (May 20, 2017 10:16 am)

I don't think she herself is a threat (often the opposite, I agree), but she brings about changes in their relationship - by getting married, shooting Sherlock, having a baby, dying, etc.   And I do remember discussion before S4 (I wasn't around before S3): people wanted their relationship to progress, to go through challenges, etc., rather than being a "simple, uncomplicated friendship".    Although that's the starting point, it seems to be the end point as well.  They go through the challenges and work their way back to simple, uncomplicated friendship by the end of S4.  

But yes, I suppose people might have wanted it to be more static - which is kind of how it is in the stories, I think (I'm ashamed to say that I haven't read them all). 

BB, I think they adore each other even more at the end! They are really solid in TFP, no question.  Maybe it would still be the same if they had nothing to ruffle the friendship, but maybe there's a different kind of closeness after all they've been through (including everything with Mary).