I would concur.

SusiGo wrote:

I am posting this here because it belongs to S4 as a whole and extends back to HLV and TAB. I have been feeling that something is missing about John, that he has been diminished as a character for quite some time. And then I wrote this and some people have added their interesting observations. 

http://loveismyrevolution.tumblr.com/post/158274582932/john-is-not-a-doctor-anymore

 

Very good points, thank you very much for sharing. I also loved that people actually discussed your points and noone accused you of "hating John Watson" or something similar. Lovely debate.

In my opinion John isn´t the only character who was treated like this in the narrative. Other characters like Mycroft, Lestrade or Molly also didn´t evolve past their introduction in ASIP, but slowly made way for the original characters of "strong females" like Mary, Janine or Eurus, who, in turn, got plenty of screentime. It´s like the authors made the place for these new characters by sacrificing the old ones (maybe they were too uninteresting for Moftiss to be made important in the storyline?). Because John is one of the main heroic duo, in his case this treatment of his is especially conspicuous. 

nakahara wrote:

Other characters like Mycroft, Lestrade or Molly also didn´t evolve past their introduction in ASIP, but slowly made way for the original characters of "strong females" like Mary, Janine or Eurus, who, in turn, got plenty of screentime.

I agree about Lestrade, but I thought Mycroft and Molly evolved quite a bit. 

I also think John evolved quite a bit as a character, moreso than I would have expected in a show about Sherlock Holmes. What I think is the main issue isn't that he didn't evolve, but that he evolved differently than what most of us expected).
 

Vhanja wrote:

nakahara wrote:

Other characters like Mycroft, Lestrade or Molly also didn´t evolve past their introduction in ASIP, but slowly made way for the original characters of "strong females" like Mary, Janine or Eurus, who, in turn, got plenty of screentime.

I agree about Lestrade, but I thought Mycroft and Molly evolved quite a bit. 

I also think John evolved quite a bit as a character, moreso than I would have expected in a show about Sherlock Holmes. What I think is the main issue isn't that he didn't evolve, but that he evolved differently than what most of us expected).
 

I don´t want to pass my opinion as the correct one, so of course, I respect that. But in my eyes these people were diminished rather than evolved:

- Mycroft was gradually stripped of his mystique and cleverness untill he looked quite silly and irresponsible (he allowed Eurus to meet with Moriarty? really?). Finally, his parents stuck the last nail into his coffin when they declared Sherlock to be more responsible than him.
- Molly was deprived of her image of a sweet girl helping Sherlock when she started slapping people around and sticking them with a fork, but other than that, was there actually anything new we found out about her in S3 or S4? 
- I agree with Susi that John was gradually stripped of his image of a doctor (and a blogger). In my eyes that is devolvement rather than evolvement.

Just my two cents, of course. 

besleybean wrote:

My response may seem a bit prosaic: but just to say, John was shown to be doctoring still, in TFP and it is made very clear that he is top blogger in TLD.

I have to disagree here. He constantly had to remind people that it was HIS blog, but they barely believed/remembered him. I think it underlines the point that John isn't perceived as Sherlock's blogger anymore. "Where would I be without my blogger?" Well, in a hospital room, half dead.

Last edited by ewige (March 11, 2017 7:36 pm)

Vhanja wrote:

2. As for his attitude towards Sherlock in TLD, I think we've discussed this in other threads. John didn't really like Sherlock much at that point. If I remember correctly, I think Martin actually used the word "hate". And so all John saw, was a man again being lost to drugs, losing control. Just confirming for John why he is "right" in not spending any more time with Sherlock. I do think you can become rather jaded and cynical after a while, when close ones are drug addicts. Not saying it's right, only understandable.

I still find this scene to be quite incomprehensible.
John says to Lestrade: "No long ago, he shot Charles Magnussen in the face. We did see it coming. We always saw it coming. But it was fun."

So John considers shooting people in the face fun, but going after them with a scalpel is over the top?

Very bizarre. And so un-watsony as it gets.

Vhanja wrote:

3. The car-birth scene doesn't make sense either. Only thing I can think of is that it was done that way for comedy effect. Also, to put focus back on Sherlock (if John was in the back with Mary, Sherlock would have been reduced to being a chauffeur for the scene, and the focus would have been on John and Mary. The show is first and foremost about Sherlock as the main character, so instead of making it a dramatic scene about John and Mary, they made it into a comedic scene centering around Sherlock).

The authors confessed they wrote the plane scene into TST in order to allow Amanda Abbington to flash her "American accent", so I wouldn´t read too much into this scene either. It is illogical, but it was obviously not meant to be serious.

Maybe Sherlock was too busy tweeting to actually drive? 

Last edited by nakahara (March 11, 2017 7:48 pm)

Vhanja wrote:

And, again, the show is first and foremost about Sherlock, not John. We got more than I thought we ever would already.

I think that almost every Sherlock Holmes adaptation is about John Watson just as much as about Sherlock Holmes. He is the narrator and the character the audience can relate to, so it is unwise to let him be pushed aside.

Otherwise, good points. 

I'll add to the examples the rather strange insight into John's "doctor" work in TEH.   There is definitely a kind of odd view of John as a doctor.  Even when we do see him "doctoring", it's more like first aid.    I suppose it would have been nice to see a bit more ... I always think it's interesting that the inspiration for Sherlock was a doctor.  (It's as if Sherlock and John are aspects of the same person, in a way?).  But perhaps that doesn't really resonate with Moftiss.   It's a while since I've read an ACD story, but I seem to remember John's doctoring didn't play a central role.   He's a doctor, but he's not in the Holmes/Watson team as a doctor, if you know what mean - just as himself. 

I think the driving can easily be explained - Sherlock probably wasn't insured by the car.  But I agree that it had to be that way round for comedic effect.  And perhaps John being a doctor just didn't feature much in the story towards the end.   (Except perhaps, if he has an interest in psychiatry, when he seems really switched on about Eurus when they're at Sherrinford).

Yes, and it's maybe interesting that Sherlock chooses a hospital as the setting for John to save him (I know he doesn't exactly choose it, but still, John's a doctor and he saves Sherlock in a hospital, an environment he has trained in and is familiar with). 

I agree with what you said above, BB, about John playing a big part in S4.  I think TLD in particular is John's episode - there is a lot there about John and his relationship with Sherlock.  Also Eurus approaches John twice, and Sherlock once before the reveal - John is important.  Even in TFP, there is a big theme of Sherlock saving his friend (Redbeard/Victor/John).