It was not a joke in THoB. And it is things like this that make people doubt S4. Just saying. 
 

Have a look around online and you will find lots of arguments. 

This is why I can't really talk about Sherlock S04 anymore.
I think T6T was the story Sherlock imagined he would tell Ella in order to work out how to help John - but I don't think what we saw was what really happened at all!

As for TFP it's laughable to me that anyone would accept even as tv reality that Sherlocks whole family failed to mention or talk about their daughter Eurus and failed to notice Sherlock thought she was a dog for decades. Not to mention another forgotten murdered child!

Sorry that whole idea is absolutely abhorrent to me , my young brother was murdered and I and my family remember him every single day!

So sadly despite being a huge fan and thinking 10 episodes were masterpieces, the only way for me with S04 is that's not what happened at all.
Whatever the F they did. Big fail.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (February 14, 2017 11:37 pm)

You should accept that other people's opinion may differ. Especially after Moth shared a painful personal experience with us.  Writers and their shows do not exist in a vacuum. They are watched by people who form their own opinions about what they see. If you are happy, fine. But please accept if others are not instead of telling them that all is brilliant.

Maybe we should start seeing this whole matter as the second large "conspiracy" in the show just like the Johnlock one: If you want to believe that there are unreal/MP scenes all over the place you can find plenty and plenty hints for it and it starts getting so obviois. If you don't believe, then it is just as fine and you enjoy it nontheless...


Interesting observations though, SusiGo. I love reading those things. ;)

Of course we all deal with things in our own way. This is because writers and their shows do not exist in a vacuum, The people watching it have very different experiences in their own lives, and therefore a very different way of seeing things. I think it is very brave that Moth shared sich a painful  personal experience with us, and I understand completely that it is in conceivable from this point of view that Sherlock has completely "forgotten"/repressed these things. I personally have the opposite experience: there are very unpleasant things in my past and I knew nothing about it until my therapist made me aware of it. I think, it depends on the situation and the personality how you react.

But one thing speaks against the idea, that a lot of things in series 4 are MP: Sherlock has apparently no (or no true) remembrance of Eurus and Victor. I am sure that this memory is somewhere in his subconscious, but he has no access to it for a long time. I assume that unter these circumstances he could not see the events in TFP in his MP. Therefore they must be real, in my opinion (which, of course, by no means must be correct, it was just a thought).

Here's new stuff to think about.

Interestingly it's quite the opposite conclusion of what athameg wrote two posts above. I have been rewatching THoB and in this ep we are explicitly told how Sherlock's mindpalace is supposed to work as a memory technique. It is a way to never forget things, you only have to find your way back to the known place in your mind where you put that information. Well, everything in TFP is about Sherlock going through a bunch of strange rooms (in the end even the very well known rooms of his childhood) and in the end retrieving the lost memories about Eurus and Redbeard.

True, he wouldn't have consciously put those memories in his mindpalace back then, but isn't it thinkable that he could find the lost memory there nontheless?

Last edited by Rache (February 23, 2017 11:40 pm)

I think the problem is that they have changed the definition of what Sherlock's mind palace is. In THoB and TEH it is indeed a memory technique, a storage device for knowledge he thinks he might need one day. 

The big change, however, comes with HLV: here we get a mixture of knowledge (forwards or backwards, Molly and Anderson), fantasy (bride Mary shooting him), and corrupted memories (Redbeard). I think the last one is the most interesting one because it proves how deeply embedded the image of the dog is in his subconscious. Even at this point, on the brink of death, deep in his mind, he has this very clear image of a beloved dog. 

And there is of course TAB where both versions of the MP are openly addressed:

OHN: No, he can do this. I’ve seen it – the Mind Palace. It’s like a whole world in his head.
SHERLOCK (frustrated): Yes, and I need to get back there.
MYCROFT: The Mind Palace is a memory technique. I know what it can do; and I know what it most certainly cannot.

A whole world in his head vs memory technique. Both are real for Sherlock and therefore for us. The MP is much more than stored data because in this case Redbeard the dog would have no place in there. 

 

Yes, I think it's possible that he could find things in his mind palace too (other than consciously stored memories).  I think that in TFP, it's the reality of his childhood home that helps to remind him.   His mind palace memory of that place would not be of a burnt-out building.  (Although I suppose you could argue that Sherlock creates a memory of the abandoned building, after finding out that it was burnt).  In fact, he only remembers Victor when Eurus tells him that they didn't have a dog (rather than the house jogging his memory). 

This is a very good explanation, athameg.