BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Screenspy about series 4

SusiGo · January 20, 2017 9:01 pm

I find this article very balanced and well thought out. And it addresses problematic issues in what I find is a fair and eloquent way:

http://www.screenspy.com/articles/heed-words-sherlock-lost-way/

Liberty · January 20, 2017 9:27 pm

Funnily enough, I find it quite biased towards the negative! And a lot of the questions it asks have been answered.

ewige · January 20, 2017 9:30 pm

What an amazing article. Thanks for sharing!
I've been feeling like in that story, The King's New Clothes, recently because of all the gushy positive reviews in the media.
This article is very balanced and it addresses a lot of points I have an issue with.

ewige · January 20, 2017 9:32 pm

Liberty wrote:
Funnily enough, I find it quite biased towards the negative! And a lot of the questions it asks have been answered.

Only "drowned Redbeard" comes to mind. They didn't get that one. But the rest of their questions still stand, imo.

besleybean · January 20, 2017 9:32 pm

I haven't seen many positive reviews and I find this one rather harsh.

dioscureantwins · January 21, 2017 9:49 am

besleybean wrote:
I haven't seen many positive reviews and I find this one rather harsh.

I'm very, very sorry Besley but I don't think this is harsh at all but balanced and just. Actually they still seem to trust Moffat and Gatiss of being able to make something better again. A trust, I admit, I most certainly lack at the moment.

dioscureantwins · January 21, 2017 9:52 am

ewige wrote:
What an amazing article. Thanks for sharing!
I've been feeling like in that story, The King's New Clothes, recently because of all the gushy positive reviews in the media.
This article is very balanced and it addresses a lot of points I have an issue with.

I've been casting S4 as the nightmare version of The Emperor's New Clothes as well. Did really no one dare tell them these stories weren't a very good idea.

Though I suppose they should have told them when they offered the scripts for S3. That's where the rot began.

SusiGo · January 21, 2017 10:23 am

besleybean wrote:
I haven't seen many positive reviews and I find this one rather harsh.

If you find this one harsh, what about:

http://sherlock-addict.tumblr.com/post/156162076961/incurablylazydevil-the-press-will-turn-and

This is the reality. I am terribly sad, believe me, and they are not completely fair but it seems there is an enormous disappointment. And not just from small fandom niches like TJLC but from the media and casual viewers as well. I think there are a lot of good things in S4 and I will keep watching the show for sure but something went wrong. One cannot deny that if so many people from all backgrounds are not happy with it. Therefore I wanted to bring an example of an article that tries to explain what many people disliked about S4.

besleybean · January 21, 2017 11:19 am

Hang on, what exactly are we trying to prove here?
That a lot of people didn't like S4 and people are justified?
Fine.
That is completely different from saying: Mark and Steven got it wrong.
Their vision.
I loved it.
For me, I don't care if I'm the only one who did so!
But presumably, at least the rest of the Sherlock team did, too.
Personally I tweeted Mark and said how brilliant I thought it was and how much I loved it and I cannot believe I was the only one.
Am I in a minority? Possibly, I've lived that way the whole of my life.

Last edited by besleybean (January 21, 2017 11:20 am)

Liberty · January 21, 2017 12:47 pm

Well, an article which explains what many people disliked is not necessarily a balanced article - that's all I'm saying. There's a couple of positives at the beginning, then a whole list of negatives. It doesn't really go far to explain what many people liked!

I googled reviews and the first to come up was this one http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/sherlock-episode-3-final-problem-review-exhilarating-thrill/ , so there are definitely positive views out there, from critics and fans.

besleybean · January 21, 2017 12:49 pm

Yay, well done The Telegraph!

Liberty · January 21, 2017 1:00 pm

ewige wrote:
Liberty wrote:
Funnily enough, I find it quite biased towards the negative! And a lot of the questions it asks have been answered.
Only "drowned Redbeard" comes to mind. They didn't get that one. But the rest of their questions still stand, imo.

I don't know. They ask what becomes of the drug Culverton uses - well, it's explained at the beginning that it's used in dentistry and minor operations. It's not a special drug just for Culverton - it's one in general use that he has special access to. Sherlock and John are OK after jumping out of the windows, because they land on the awning below. John presumably doesn't escape just by rope from the well - we see a rope being thrown down to help him keep upright, but we don't see how the rescuers actually get him out. Does it matter too much? Molly gets emotional in her scene because she always has had a thing about Sherlock, despite pretending she's over him. That's obvious in HLV when she slaps him, I think. John's relationship with Mary is clearly not "following through his obligations" - he loves her deeply. I don't like John being violent towards Sherlock either, but we have seen it before. Sherlock concentrates on solving the puzzle when John is in the well, because he knows that's how to save him. There are lots more!

Mothonthemantel · January 21, 2017 2:15 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I find this article very balanced and well thought out. And it addresses problematic issues in what I find is a fair and eloquent way:

http://www.screenspy.com/articles/heed-words-sherlock-lost-way/

Yes this is 100% spot on about everything. Bravo Chris.

nakahara · January 21, 2017 10:21 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I find this article very balanced and well thought out. And it addresses problematic issues in what I find is a fair and eloquent way:

http://www.screenspy.com/articles/heed-words-sherlock-lost-way/

I can only speak for myself, but I have found this article to be very well written, quite objective and leaning to the nice middle place, neither overly negative nor gushingly postitive.... plus, there are some very good points inside.

Thank you for sharing.

Vhanja · January 22, 2017 2:05 am

besleybean wrote:
Hang on, what exactly are we trying to prove here?
That a lot of people didn't like S4 and people are justified?
Fine.
That is completely different from saying: Mark and Steven got it wrong.
Their vision.
I loved it.

I can only wholeheartedly sign this.

I don't mind if people didn't like it, we all have different tastes. What completely rubs me the wrong way is when people go "Moftiss did it wrong because they didn't live up to my personal expectations of the show"

besleybean · January 22, 2017 8:31 am

Maybe some brilliant and talented people in the fandom can do better.
Fine.
Make a TV show and I'll watch and appraise it.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be crass.
But members of the Sherlock team themselves have written about the sense of entitlement among some fans, but for me it sometimes seems it goes beyond this to almost reaching the 'I know better' stage.
Which again, is not too bad itself. I'm fairly certain Mark and Steven sometimes feel they've done better than ACD himself. But for now, this is the BBC team's vision and I'll say it again : I love it!

mrshouse · January 22, 2017 9:05 am

I find this article very well written and way better and more interesting and thoughtful than overly negative or positive reviews.
I think it must be allowed to pinpoint that, though we had very good and entertaining moments and I certainly liked TLD apart from John' s violence, the show made artificial decisions that are not considered good and sucessful by those who the show is made for: the fans. Well, that is to say a considerable number of fans. Instead of repeating the mantra of "entitlement" we should discuss what we agree with in this article and which points we don't agree with.
And to those who repeat the not so happy fans should just stop watching and love anything we're given: I feel my relatiinship with "Sherlock" is like a relationship with a partner. You fall in love, but as time goes by you see unnerving sides with him (or her). You have arguments and maybe fights but certainly noone heads for the divorce straight away? Though maybe one day you will.
That's how I see it anyway.

besleybean · January 22, 2017 9:08 am

Of course. Yes, I agree.
It was just a word like 'wrong' which was a trigger for me.
Ironic, when we think of the press conference scene in ASIP!

Liberty · January 22, 2017 9:33 am

I still don't find it balanced. As I said, a lot of the questions can be answered, and a lot don't really need answering (How did Eurus paint the dog bowl?). Most of them are answered on the screen, or can be answered with a bit of thought. The writer seems to have got the wrong end of the stick about the characters - it looks like Mary wasn't supposed to be a villain, John didn't stay with her because of obligation, and Molly still hadn't got over Sherlock, John and Sherlock weren't meant to be a romantic couple. The writer has misinterpreted, and that's put them on the wrong foot - I can see why some things don't sit so well. But I do feel that those things were spelled out in the series up until now - and though there are different interpretations, the "truth" was there to be picked up if people wanted to. This particular review is based on false assumptions.

(And I've got to say, John is not snarky and jealous when he's encouraging Sherlock to seek romance while he can (the "posh boy" comment seems affectionate, and typical of them and Mary). He cares about him. There are lots of other comments in the review that seem off, but that one in particular seems to "spoil" that lovely interaction between the two at the end of TLD ... and completely miss the point, in my opinion).

besleybean · January 22, 2017 10:33 am

I agree.
But I would also like to clarify: I do think it is perfectly reasonable(and even necessary) for people to bring any review here they wish.
We are all entitled to both hold our opinions and to share them.
Of course some of us may want to nitpick over whether(for instance) a particular researcher has done their research.
Further, in some cases we may suspect the motives of a particular newspaper.
For my part I am not familiar with Screenspy, so I hold no personal malice against them.