I don't think Mycroft could see Sherlock was in danger with regard to this case...Mary was the initial target.

Well again, why would Mycroft think Sherlock was a target because of Mary?
He'd always been Moriarty's target, anyway!

This seems plausible.

Another thing, though. Mary saying "Sherlock, the dragon slayer." The expression has been used twice, by Moriarty and Mycroft, when they were alone with Sherlock. Just a coincidence?
 

I'm not sure ... it seems odd that even if they were all in it together (and I'm not completely to that idea), that they'd discuss calling him a dragon-slayer and use it at those particular points.  It could just be that Mary means that she knows he wants to see himself as a dragon-slayer - and he did slay her dragon.

SusiGo wrote:

Something I find interesting: So John and Mary are having their big conversation about her past and telling lies, the "I used to" thing about liking Mary and so on. Something really private and personal between man and wife. And they are doing this in Sherlock's presence. Have they ever done anything meaningful (except maybe conceiving the child) without Sherlock being there as well? The aborted proposal, the domestic in HLV, the reconciliation with Sherlock next door, the birth of their child, talking about their marriage crisis, Mary dying … not a single meaningful moment for the two of them without Sherlock being there. Of course you can explain every single one of them but viewed in their entirety - seems almost like a menage á trois. 

I noticed this too. I was surprised that Sherlock was present when they had that conversation. It seemed to be more of a private couple moment, not something to be talked about with an audience.

I think Sherlock always being there is to do with the show being called Sherlock, but also, he is supposed to be looking out for both John and Mary.
I really don't think either Sherlock or John would have wanted to share Mary and they don't seem interested in each other that way.
 

SusiGo wrote:

Sad but true IMO:

"You can pinpoint the exact moment this show went wrong, and it’s when they decided to treat a person who murders for fun and money as a saint and the person who has repeatedly sacrificed themselves for his loved ones as someone flawed and wrong who needs to be fixed." (seducemymindyouidiot on tumblr)

And I would add:

Turning this person into a martyr and into another person's conscience and making her the patron saint of Sherlock Holmes and John Watson, something they have not needed in 130 years. And do not need now. I had hoped with all my heart that they would take a different direction with Mary in S4 but this was terrible and unnecessary.
She is in more episodes than Sherlock and John alone (leaving out the pilot and MHR). The whole cinema special material was about Mary and they gave her the last word as well. I can forgive them a lot but this does really hurt. 


 

 Oh wow yes this. I just wrote something similar.
They really broke the golden rule , they turned Holmes and Watson into a gang show. 

So, I have not read all of the posts on this thread as they are numerous, and, I gather that most do not really like Mary so my opinion will be in the minority here, but I would like to post some thoughts anyway in defense of her character.
      I liked Mary.  I enjoyed her interactions with John and Sherlock.  I don't see her as a black and white character.  In fact, all three of them (John, Mary, Sherlock) are adrenaline junkies and all three have character flaws which is part of why I enjoy watching and analyzing them.  
       I'm not sure why having a likeable personality and having a dark past are mutually exclusive.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Mary was an assassin for hire of sorts.  Nothing I saw suggests that she enjoyed killing people. I think she was good at killing people, I think it was her job, but I don't know that she necessarily enjoyed it. 
     I would compare her to some degree to TV's Dexter Morgan.  Dexter was a very likeable character.  I certainly enjoyed him and rooted for him and that was obviously the premise of the show, to make us root for someone who does something so abhorrent as kill people for sport.  True, they were killers themselves, but he did it because he enjoyed it, because he felt some urge to do so and, because he was good at it.  Dexter also wanted a normal life like Mary, married Rita and had a child with her.  He initially did it out of self-preservation, to keep a normal fascade to hide his true nature, but I think he did truly develop feelings for her and a sense of regret when Rita was killed. 
Similarly, I think many of Mary's motives are self-preserving but I think it comes from the fact that she really does love John and sees a glimpse of what her life could be with him and does not want to risk that.  She was also never the nagging shrew, she never prevented John from continuing his friendship with Sherlock when she well could have for many reasons.  Instead, she said she liked Sherlock and I think she knew how special their friendship was and aimed to keep him as part of their lives rather than driving him away.  She could have easily been very angry and unforgiving of all the hurt he caused John when Sherlock returns after two years, but she isn't.  Yes, she threatens Sherlock not to tell John but only because she doesn't want to lose the life she is trying to build, and not, in my opinion out of any real threat or vindictive response.
One could argue that many of Sherlock's motives are self-serving as well.  At least in the beginning, he really doesn't care about the victims in the cases he is solving.  He only wants to engage his brain and solve the puzzle.  This changes as the show progresses, and he has always been self-sacrificing, but seen through different eyes, he could be viewed as a callous jerk.  We as viewers forgive him a lot, because we love the character (and, I would argue, Benedict's amazing acting skills in bringing him to life because I don't think Sherlock Holmes is an easy character to play, especially with such nuance as we get in this performance), but he has a lot of undesirable qualities that we tend to sweep under the rug, because we are also shown all the good qualities as well.
I actually would have liked to have seen more of the three of them as a unit. I got the sense that Sherlock saw Mary as a kindred spirit, more similar to his less emotional personality than John and better at deductions.   If this was meant to bring Sherlock Holmes into the 20th Century, the working woman is a large part of that, and I think that could have worked, at least for a while.  But ultimately, I suppose the premise is two men, enjoying their adventures, who would do anything and sacrifice anything out of love for one another (platonic or romantic, whatever your view) and Mary doesn't fit into that story.
Still, I thought her an interesting if flawed character and I genuinely liked the comic relief she brought.  I don't think she is a villain at all, but rather a woman forced to make some very tough choices and to then dare to dream of and try to attain a normal and happy life. 
  

I see your point but the problem is that this is not what SH is about. It never was. You can write a show about three people who are friends and go on all kinds of adventures but why did they have to do it in a show about Sherlock Holmes? The writers have called it the "Sherlock and John show" and everybody loved that concept and they threw it away for a threesome only few people liked. And even most of those who liked her expected her to be gone at the beginning of S4 at the latest. But she did have to come back from the dead for a whole episode, the bonus material in cinemas was all about her, and they gave her the voice-over at the end. 

Why would we need Mary's blessing for Sherlock and John living together again? Or solving crimes? They have done that for 130 years. 

P.S. I am fine with her dying but it could have happened sooner and without turning her into a martyr. 

Last edited by SusiGo (January 20, 2017 4:21 pm)

Exactly. And they even gave her/Amanda the whole 15 minute cinema special.