BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » What is real in TFP?

gently69 · January 20, 2017 9:49 am

Mothonthemantel wrote:
I don't usually notice tiny errors until someone points them out on here. .

Me too. Malicious tongues would say that I am not a "real" fan because I see but not observe.

nakahara · January 20, 2017 9:51 am

Actually, it´s possible that John and Sherlock ended in the hospital after jumping out of the window, that horror stary taking place at the Island is just MP and that we only return to the reality when Baker Street is being redecorated?

gently69 · January 20, 2017 9:52 am

SusiGo wrote:
We are not talking about tiny mistakes here but about fundamental things like:

- How do they get from Sherrinford, an island in the sea, to the Holmes ancestral home with the well? Star Trek beaming or what?

For me this is the one crucial thing that struck me at once. I can forgive a lot, they are human, but this does not make any sense except in a dream where you just go from one place to the other.

And many things more. When do we see any solution then?
If Mofftiss always use dreams and MP and don't present any solution since S1 it's even worse than I thought.

Last edited by gently69 (January 20, 2017 9:56 am)

SusiGo · January 20, 2017 9:54 am

I would love to have an answer to that.

Mothonthemantel · January 20, 2017 9:55 am

The patience grenade also contained the hallucinatory gas from Hound.

nakahara · January 20, 2017 9:56 am

Mothonthemantel wrote:
The patience grenade also contained the hallucinatory gas from Hound.

Good idea!

ewige · January 20, 2017 9:59 am

Re: transportation from Sherrinford:
If you have a chopper handy, why not? A couple of able-bodied nurses could have helped to move everybody. Eurus must have had construction workers in Musgrave in advance to arrange everything too.

nakahara · January 20, 2017 10:05 am

I think Eurus, as she was presented in the story, was very obviously a call-out to horror movies, where characters like her can do such bizarre, outrageous stuff mostly because they stem from the realm of supernatural (they are ghosts or psychics or have telekinetic power or something similar...). And so she can be really understood as being a supernatural being or a part of a scary nightmare or a feverish dream.... that would actually explain the weird logistic of her actions most practically.

Mothonthemantel · January 20, 2017 10:06 am

I guess she had Sir Edwin hire people to kidnap and transport the drugged Sherlock and John and build the fake box room thing for her before he shot himself.

Euros does ruin a lot of the past plots though. Quite badly. Magnussen and Moriarty especially.One even wonders how the scenes with the parents can be real.

Mothonthemantel · January 20, 2017 10:09 am

nakahara wrote:
I think Eurus, as she was presented in the story, was very obviously a call-out to horror movies, where characters like her can do such bizarre, outrageous stuff mostly because they stem from the realm of supernatural (they are ghosts or psychics or have telekinetic power or something similar...). And so she can be really understood as being a supernatural being or a part of a scary nightmare or a feverish dream.... that would actually explain the weird logistic of her actions most practically.

Best explanation so far . Reminded of the exorcist and anti Christ omen film references regarding Rosie.

nakahara · January 20, 2017 10:24 am

Mothonthemantel wrote:
I guess she had Sir Edwin hire people to kidnap and transport the drugged Sherlock and John and build the fake box room thing for her before he shot himself.

I guess the story would have much more sense if they sacrificed some horror movie references and Sherlock the Pirate scene and made Eurus trap them in one room only, placed in the ruined Musgrave Hall.
If you think about it, tasks Eurus gave them didn´t really require that they move from room to room, they could be cracked in one room too.
That would make Eurus revenge more believable, would remove bizarre scenes like "Sherlock cannot recognise missing glass" + there would not be any need for Eurus to transport unconscious men anywhere.

ewige · January 20, 2017 10:28 am

nakahara wrote:
That would make Eurus revenge more believable, would remove bizarre scenes like "Sherlock cannot recognise missing glass" + there would not be any need for Eurus to transport unconscious men anywhere.

But I loved the missing glass! Haven't recognized it too!
The man who's used to see thru it all can't recognize that there's nothing to see thru! I thought that was pretty amazing. Also sums up Mark and Steven's views of the fanbase, apparently. We are too clever for our own good. This is what Moriarty was talking about too (binary code on the roof) - but did we listen?!

Last edited by ewige (January 20, 2017 10:28 am)

SusiGo · January 20, 2017 10:35 am

True, the idea with the glass was very good. What I do not like about it is this:

In the above pic which is from Arwel's Twitter you can see that the warning sign is standing on those thin metal posts, right? Which are necessary because there is no glass. Makes sense. But we are made to believe that there is a glass pane because we see the warning on it.
In the second pic from the episode itself you can see that they have erased the posts, thus tricking us into thinking that the writing is on the glass. This is just a detail but it annoys me because I feel deceived. I have no chance of seeing that there is no glass because of something that is impossible.

Last edited by SusiGo (January 20, 2017 10:36 am)

nakahara · January 20, 2017 10:35 am

But Sherlock doesn´t need to look in that scene - he should recognise the missing glass based solely on the sound of violin Eurus plays in that scene. The sound would be very different if it came from behind thick glass.
Or is he hearing impaired now, too?

nakahara · January 20, 2017 10:37 am

SusiGo wrote:
But we are made to believe that there is a glass pane because we see the warning on it.
In the second pic from the episode itself you can see that they have erased the posts, thus tricking us into thinking that the writing is on the glass. This is just a detail but it annoys me because I feel deceived. I have no chance of seeing that there is no glass because of something that is impossible.

It also makes the sign kinda float in the air, which is bizarre too.

ewige · January 20, 2017 10:37 am

Artistic license...

nakahara · January 20, 2017 10:42 am

I take it as a confirmation that Eurus has the power of telekinesis and holds that sign in the air using that power....

ewige · January 20, 2017 10:46 am

I think they must have tried "attaching" one side of the signs to the frame but it looked dodgy. So they made them float to fool naive audience like me

Mothonthemantel · January 20, 2017 11:10 am

Yes. Sherlock failed to notice the invisible string holding them. Additionally she locked Mycroft in the cell.
I guess he failed to notice the missing glass too.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (January 20, 2017 11:11 am)

SolarSystem · January 20, 2017 12:06 pm

The two fundamental questions to me are the WHY and the WHEN.

Why would Mofftiss feel the need to tell their story in this particular way? They said that it's a show about a detective, okay. But why would they feel the need to tell the story (or parts of it) in Sherlock's mind? What would be the advantage of that? And furthermore: Why would they do this in such a cryptic way? Wouldn't they want to have the whole audience, fans and casual viewers, on board for the ride? Wouldn't they want everyone to get it? What's the use if a large part of the audience doesn't even get it and just thinks that something is weird and feels a bit off? Wouldn't there be more obvious hints? Or am I supposed to believe that to Mofftiss it's okay if some people get it (and not even immediately but only after lots and lots of metas have been written) and a large part of the audience just thinks that things don't really make sense.
I am willing to believe that something like the laptop scene in TSoT is indeed MP and that it's okay for the writers that not everyone understands what's going on in that particular scene. But seriously, doing MP on such a huge scale since HLV (or whenever this is supposed to have started) without giving more accessible hints and running the risk of 90 % of the audience not understanding it... I simply don't believe it. It would be too clever and too stupid both at the same time.

And the WHEN: When exactly did we enter Sherlock's MP and when can we expect to get the resolution? In five years maybe, if we do indeed get more episodes? Or maybe never? Even if it would be in five years, what kind of story-telling is that? Again, the casual viewer will long have forgotten about the details in TFP or even HLV. Or did we already get the resolution in TFP and most of us have just missed it, again?

I totally understand the need to understand what we have seen and to make sense of the inconsistencies. And it's a pretty deflating thought that most of it might indeed be due to continuity or other errors. But to me MP is not the answer. Mofftiss are pretty amazing writers, but maybe only most of the time and not always. I'm not even saying that they wrote themselves into a corner, I'm just saying that if they had given us three or more episodes in Sherlock's mind, then they would also have given us more distinct clues.