BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » What is real in TFP?

SusiGo · January 20, 2017 7:29 am

Yes, another one. Sorry if this is getting repetitive but to me the episodes have become increasingly surreal and TFP with its dream logic may well be the culmination of all that. I am sure lots of things have already been discussed in the Questions thread. But I think we need a place to discuss if the episode is just a collection of continuity errors and inconsistencies or if there is method in it.

Here is a first example:

https://loudest-subtext-in-tv.tumblr.com/post/156114719184/skulls-and-tea-the-fuckiness-continues-johns

ewige · January 20, 2017 7:35 am

It saddens me to say so but I think they are all just continuity errors. No matter how hard Arwel winks when asked about "blog.jpg".

The show's over. There is no room for any corrections or clever theories anymore. I'm sad because fans seem to be cleverer than the writers (so many complex theories - and everything was resolved in a deux ex machina move?? a new-ish super-villain? Cmon...)

Oh wait. John's chair could just have needed new upholstery after the explosion. Yep. It's not like the rug didn't suffer too... oh wait, it didn't! (we seriously need an eyeroll smiley here)

Last edited by ewige (January 20, 2017 7:41 am)

SusiGo · January 20, 2017 7:40 am

But then we could stop discussing the show as a whole, right? And close the forum at once. Forgive me for trying to find some sense in these things. For not willing to believe that after years of brilliant, award-winning work they - not just the writers, the technical team as well - threw all logic away and got that sloppy.

ewige · January 20, 2017 7:44 am

SusiGo wrote:
But then we could stop discussing the show as a whole, right? And close the forum at once. Forgive me for trying to find some sense in these things. For not willing to believe that after years of brilliant, award-winning work they - not just the writers, the technical team as well - threw all logic away and got that sloppy.

I apologize for venting.
I'd love for the many weird things to make sense in the end somehow. I just don't think they will.
(Also, I have added a bit to my first post)

Last edited by ewige (January 20, 2017 7:44 am)

SusiGo · January 20, 2017 7:49 am

I see what you mean. IMO TFP would make an awesome episode if it was e.g. John being shot and imagining these things. The problem is that is does not make sense if taken literally.

Like - why cast a child actress and use a plane if in ASIB we had the very same child actress AND a plane? This does make sense if we see her in Sherlock's mind, him associating the little girl whose Grandpa died with the flight of the dead. But it does not work if it happens in Eurus's mind.

Liberty · January 20, 2017 8:03 am

I don't think it's mind palace, but I'd agree that there are kind of surreal elements in TFP. I don't think it's meant to be 100% realistic.

I did suggest that the child actress was cast because she's the same actress who had lost her grandpa in ASIB - it turned out these disappearing bodies were being used for Bond Air - a plane full of sleeping/dead people. So Sherlock pictures that little girl. Eurus might picture something different (herself?) and it might have been interesting to use her child actress, but also a bit of a giveaway.

I have to admit that I didn't notice John's chair, but that kind of nicely ties it in to TAB.

Mothonthemantel · January 20, 2017 8:11 am

I agree with Susie. I really really don't think it was meant to be taken as real or realistic at all. Something going on like with TAB. John got shot with a real gun that fired a bullet and smoked and then everything went red. Yet apparently it was a tranquilizer dart?. Nope.
Sherlock maybe found the note from Faith and was tripping so he imagined everything going to hell

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ewige · January 20, 2017 8:15 am

Liberty wrote:
I did suggest that the child actress was cast because she's the same actress who had lost her grandpa in ASIB - it turned out these disappearing bodies were being used for Bond Air - a plane full of sleeping/dead people. So Sherlock pictures that little girl.

Yes, that.
It's Sherlock's POV, this is why he sees that particular girl.

Maybe the TAB chair is the reason Sue thought everybody who loved TAB would love S4

ewige · January 20, 2017 8:17 am

Mothonthemantel wrote:
I agree with Susie. I really really don't think it was meant to be taken as real or realistic at all. Something going on like with TAB. John got shot with a real gun that fired a bullet and smoked and then everything went red. Yet apparently it was a tranquilizer dart?. Nope.
Sherlock maybe found the note from Faith and was tripping so he imagined everything going to hell

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But what about the whole character development happening in TFP?
We've got loads and loads of gold nuggets... I'd hate to throw them away.

Mothonthemantel · January 20, 2017 8:24 am

What character development was new ?

ewige · January 20, 2017 8:30 am

It wasn't completely new but it concluded the whole development arc. Sherlock finally learns to integrate his emotions into his thinking, for one thing.

Mothonthemantel · January 20, 2017 8:41 am

I think there was more development and a better ending in TLD . It would have made more sense then for Lestrade to say Sherlock was a good and great man. Actually I think TLD should have been the finale with TFP in the middle. Hugging his psycho killer sister after forgetting or deleting or whatever her for decades - does not really make him good . Stopping Culverton Smith and helping Faith when he thought she was suicidal did. Admitting he is human and hugging John and going for cake would have made a perfect end. I enjoyed TFP ( apart from having decided it will never make sense) I just didn't like it as an ending. The montage at the end seemed like a tacked on afterthought and Mary narrating was nauseous. Just my opinion .

gently69 · January 20, 2017 8:43 am

Couldn't it be that in a show produced for 7 years now with breaks in between people behind the scenes are just... human? That they didn't think that complicated and slips happened now and again? And that some things are only coincidence?

ewige · January 20, 2017 8:53 am

Mothonthemantel wrote:
I think there was more development and a better ending in TLD . It would have made more sense then for Lestrade to say Sherlock was a good and great man. Actually I think TLD should have been the finale with TFP in the middle. Hugging his psycho killer sister after forgetting or deleting or whatever her for decades - does not really make him good . Stopping Culverton Smith and helping Faith when he thought she was suicidal did. Admitting he is human and hugging John and going for cake would have made a perfect end. I enjoyed TFP ( apart from having decided it will never make sense) I just didn't like it as an ending. The montage at the end seemed like a tacked on afterthought and Mary narrating was nauseous. Just my opinion .

I think TFP is supposed to explain why Sherlock is so obsessed with his work, with solving every bloody puzzle after having failed to solve the most important one. It also explains why he is like he is - so emotional and yet so suppressed.

TLD was the emotional finale for me. TFP was emotional in and of itself but it was more or a narration finale.

ewige · January 20, 2017 8:55 am

gently69 wrote:
Couldn't it be that in a show produced for 7 years now with breaks in between people behind the scenes are just... human? That they didn't think that complicated and slips happened now and again? And that some things are only coincidence?

Sure.
It's just Arwel's wink that's killing me. He could have admitted to being human too but no, we get a wink as an explanation for the jpg blog.
And no explanation whatsoever in regard to the fluorecent skull.

gently69 · January 20, 2017 8:56 am

ewige wrote:
TLD was the emotional finale for me. TFP was emotional in and of itself but it was more or a narration finale.

I agree.

Mothonthemantel · January 20, 2017 9:07 am

The narrative of Sherlock is similar to that of horror movies but the theme is love

gently69 · January 20, 2017 9:17 am

ewige wrote:
gently69 wrote:
Couldn't it be that in a show produced for 7 years now with breaks in between people behind the scenes are just... human? That they didn't think that complicated and slips happened now and again? And that some things are only coincidence?
Sure.
It's just Arwel's wink that's killing me. He could have admitted to being human too but no, we get a wink as an explanation for the jpg blog.
And no explanation whatsoever in regard to the fluorecent skull.

Has anybody working for the show ever admitted any errors? I can't remember now. Please correct me when I'm wrong.
I just don't believe that every tiny mistake is a hint on something and can only be explained by MP.

Mothonthemantel · January 20, 2017 9:36 am

I don't usually notice tiny errors until someone points them out on here.
Everyone noticed the gun and bullet at the end of TLD though, there's a thread - how will John survive ?

When you rule out...whatever remains must be the truth.

SusiGo · January 20, 2017 9:44 am

We are not talking about tiny mistakes here but about fundamental things like:

- How do they get from Sherrinford, an island in the sea, to the Holmes ancestral home with the well? Star Trek beaming or what?

For me this is the one crucial thing that struck me at once. I can forgive a lot, they are human, but this does not make any sense except in a dream where you just go from one place to the other.