BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean · January 12, 2017 4:52 pm

I don't know...homosexuality was illegal.

Liberty · January 12, 2017 6:17 pm

Which would explain why there wouldn't have been any in the original stories, whether or not ACD had intended it! I don't feel I know him well enough to judge. I actually suspect he didn't, but I could happily believe that he did. Because that very thing (an openly gay attraction/relationship) wouldn't have been explicit in the stories however gay he intended them to be. (On the other hand, I think sometimes male friendship and intimacy was more celebrated then).

But now, it's not only legal but celebrated, thankfully! So I think it would be explict in Sherlock.

(And by explicit, I just mean made clear. I don't mean "explicit" sex scenes. Just in case there's any misunderstanding!).

besleybean · January 12, 2017 6:21 pm

Having read a biography on him, one might consider ACD a homophobe
Whatever your view, he felt sorry for gay men...because he thought they were sick.

Lis · January 12, 2017 10:54 pm

I've definitely spent too long reading Johnlock posts (and talking to my sister who is a huge Johnlock fan haha) because now I don't even know what to think about the likelihood of Johnlock actually being canon on the show. I go back and forth between "no, they're definitely not going to show Johnlock on screen" and "they are totally in love and we're going to get a huge love confession"

Still, like I said previously, no matter if Johnlock is or is not explicitly shown on screen I will still be happy as it's clear they care deeply for each other and I've loved watching their relationship develop on screen and I'm so looking forward to seeing where we go in TFP. Only a few days to go!

Liberty · January 13, 2017 7:52 am

Oh, they definitely do care deeply! They are showing a love relationship, either way.

I just feel that, despite all the metas and stuff, they haven't been building up to a Johnlock relationship. Everything we've seen so far fits with a friendship interpretation, and I think the last two episodes just go further to confirm that. I know they could put Johnlock in the last episode, but I don't think they will - there just isn't time now to build that up.

ewige · January 13, 2017 7:59 am

Have you seen this tender caress? Going for the most vulnerable spot without hesitation or doubt, being followed by the camera?

The internet is ready!

Last edited by ewige (January 13, 2017 8:00 am)

Liberty · January 13, 2017 8:16 am

Aww .. . . Well, that's lovely whatever way you look at it!

(Although I'm looking at it as these two men who love each other, who have been through hell, who are grieving, and have separated and reconciled, who are finding comfort).

ewige · January 13, 2017 8:27 am

I know, Liberty. I refuse seeing any sexual undercurrent here because it would be completely out of place.
But the sheer intimacy of this embrace is mind-boggling.

Shani · January 13, 2017 9:58 am

Edit by Liberty: Warning, BFI screening spoiler in the tags!

Well there was a preview screening of The Final Problem in London last night...

It seems that there was no Johnlock kiss or confirmation that they are in a romantic or sexual relationship.

The nasty and abusive tweets to Mark, Sue and Arwel have begun already. As I predicted a few months ago, this is not going to be pleasant.

Last edited by Liberty (January 13, 2017 6:04 pm)

Schmiezi · January 13, 2017 10:10 am

Edit by Liberty: Warning, BFI screening spoiler in the tags!

Shani wrote:
Well there was a preview screening of The Final Problem in London last night...

It seems that there was no Johnlock kiss or confirmation that they are in a romantic or sexual relationship.

The nasty and abusive tweets to Mark, Sue and Arwel have begun already. As I predicted a few months ago, this is not going to be pleasant.

How do you know about the first point? I was looking for spoilers and

did not find anything, neither confirming nor neglecting it.

Last edited by Liberty (January 13, 2017 6:04 pm)

ewige · January 13, 2017 10:21 am

I don't want to sound like a broken record (or a whiny baby) but please could you restrict spoilers to the dedicated preview spoiler thread? Even if it's also JL discussion? Thank you.

Schmiezi · January 13, 2017 10:27 am

Sorry. I just added spoiler tags. :-)

besleybean · January 13, 2017 4:51 pm

Thanks, Schmiezi.
Yes, this is what I was alluding to last night, on the preview thread.
Hideous tweets appearing on my timeline and I've been fighting with the cretins since then.

Liberty · January 13, 2017 6:02 pm

Mod note: Can we please be very careful about spoilers, particularly in the threads like this one which aren't tagged as spoiler threads. Some people have avoided spoilers for three years - what a shame if they come across a major one with only two days to go!

If we're discussing information from the BFI screening that might not be official, it could go in the spoiler thread for that http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=7267 or even in the spoiler Johnlock speculation thread http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=7141 , but not here. Thank you for using spoiler tags here, though, and I'll put a warning on as well, just in case (as I think the BFI screening is a special case). Everything can be discussed freely in just two days.

Thank you .

Lis · January 13, 2017 11:48 pm

I understand people are passionate but there's passionate and then there's ridiculous and the sense of entitlement from some fans is incredibly ridiculous!

Obviously if Johnlock doesn't happen, which I'm leaning to again, then people will be disappointed but the show is so much more than just that and it's a shame that Johnlock is the only thing some fans focus on (totally not aimed at anyone here).

Whatever happens they'll always be fanfics and fan art

Anyway, I don't want to dwell on the negativity of a few (relatively speaking) fans.

besleybean · January 14, 2017 8:34 am

Quite so on all accounts.
BBC Sherlock inspired and has continued to inspire a wonderful wealth of creativity.
People should be rightly proud of their own work and many others have enjoyed and continue to enjoy them.
But fan works should not be confused with the actual show.
We can of course enjoy both.

Vhanja · January 15, 2017 11:51 pm

Can I just say that I think this season ended in a very fulfilling way? At least to me. It was just what I had hoped - ambigious enough to (hopefully) satisfy both Johnlockers and non-Johnlockers. You can easily read a romantic Parentlock into the ending - and just as easily see "only" the friendship we've known all along.

This season gave me more than I thought we would ever get in terms of Johnlock. The details are left for fanfic authors!

ewige · January 15, 2017 11:55 pm

ewige wrote:
No.
I think there will be an ambiguous ending and TV history will be made with something entirely different.

Said so.

Moftiss did go for ambiguity in the end. Which is very clever. Both get!Sherlock fans and johnlockers are satisfied.

Last edited by ewige (January 15, 2017 11:56 pm)

Liberty · January 15, 2017 11:59 pm

I think they left it nicely open for fanfiction, etc. But it clearly wasn't Johnlock as endgame.

Vhanja · January 16, 2017 12:06 am

Trust ivyblossom to write it so beautifully:

https://www.tumblr.com/dashboard/blog/221bsweetheart/155919190818