BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » "Sherlock fell for Irene"

Sentimental Pulse · June 25, 2012 11:22 am

As of I ever had any doubts!

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s129/sherlock/news/a389406/benedict-cumberbatch-sherlock-fell-for-irene-adler.html?utm_source=twt&utm_medium=snets&utm_campaign=twitter

Benedict Cumberbatch has revealed that his character Sherlock fell in love with Irene Adler in 'A Scandal in Belgravia'.

In the first episode of the second series of Sherlock, Cumberbatch's detective matched wits against the iconic character, played by Lara Pulver, who was reimagined as a seductress for the updated show.

The 35-year-old spoke about the challenges of shooting the episode, confirming that Sherlock was charmed by Irene and ultimately fell for her over the course of the instalment.

"Well, he's supposedly an asexual, emotionless machine, and has cut off feelings of attraction or sensory enjoyment or interest in the female form other than to gain information," Cumberbatch told Deadline.

"So it was [about] how to get the audience to believe that you could possibly be in a position that was vulnerable - how could he possibly be feeling something for this woman?" he explained.

"But the thing about [Irene] that is very obvious when you read [the 1891 short story by Arthur Conan Doyle] is Sherlock definitely does fall for her and he does lose his cool," Cumberbatch continued.

"He's no longer the logical machine. He fell for her charms. And so it was a balancing act, but it was so deftly written [by Steven Moffat] that it was so easy to do," he concluded.

Sherlock is expected to begin shooting its third series in January.

Sammy · June 25, 2012 1:24 pm

You ship SherlockxIrene?

Hm, I still don't interpret it as "falling in love". More like... admiring.

Davina · June 25, 2012 2:30 pm

I think he did, a bit, but couldn't actually work out that that was what was happening.

KeepersPrice · June 25, 2012 8:22 pm

Nope, I don't think Sherlock fell in love with her. Maybe Ben said that to deflect the folks who may think the show is too gay or something. I think I remember him saying in another inteview that this episode was about Sherlock and love, not Sherlock in love. Anyway, I'm still debating if the ending where we see Sherlock rescuing Irene is reality or if it's his dashing pirate daydream. I do think he is intrigued by her. If he did in fact rescue her I think it was because he likes having an intellectual, puzzle solving, game playing equal in the world - and there aren't many of those around. I'm okay with it if that's what he wants - and it does give the writers a chance to bring her back for another appearance should popularity demand it. But, you know, the minute she said "Jim Moriarity sends his love" she would have been dead to me. And I relished the fact that Sherlock made her beg at the end and then walked out on her with the same coldness she'd shown to him in the airplane (and she was sooo sure she had the skills to make him beg - yeah, right!). I also noticed that when she leaned in and kissed him on the cheek he flicked his eyes at her in an annoyed way. Still doesn't like anyone getting too close and distracting him. Nope, I just didn't interpret this episode as Sherlock falling in love. But if others do, it's because those fabulous writers have done it again and given us lots of room for guessing. Bravo to them!

hepzibah · June 26, 2012 11:08 am

Hey, our Irene, how do you feel about Sherlock falling for you?

LoveBug54 · August 31, 2012 2:43 am

"But the thing about [Irene] that is very obvious when you read [the 1891 short story by Arthur Conan Doyle] is Sherlock definitely does fall for her and he does lose his cool," Cumberbatch continued."

Uh, Sweetie, I think you need to read that story again. It does not say what you think it does.

SusiGo · August 31, 2012 7:46 am

I think this is Moftiss all over again. They leave room for interpretation and like to challenge their viewers. Sherlock is a very unusual character so there is a very unusual form of attraction between him and Irene. She is in a way the female counterpart to Moriarty as they both force him to look deeply into himself and challenge him on an intellectual level that equals his own. But I don't think that there is love between them. On the other hand he seems to have taken certain risks to save her … which only proves once again the brilliancy of Moftiss.

LoveBug54 · September 2, 2012 3:52 am

SusiGo wrote:
I think this is Moftiss all over again. They leave room for interpretation and like to challenge their viewers. Sherlock is a very unusual character so there is a very unusual form of attraction between him and Irene. She is in a way the female counterpart to Moriarty as they both force him to look deeply into himself and challenge him on an intellectual level that equals his own. But I don't think that there is love between them. On the other hand he seems to have taken certain risks to save her … which only proves once again the brilliancy of Moftiss.

Yes, for how could Sherlock fall for the woman in league with the man who strapped a BOMB on his best friend? After all, Sherlock opened a can of whoop-ass on the CIA agent who roughed up Mrs. Hudson. Not that he should have hit Irene or anything like that but that should have been it as far as he was concerned. Yet he rescued her in the end, getting the last word. Like John said, "He will out-live God getting the last word."

Sam · September 7, 2012 7:47 pm

When Sherlock was eavesdropping on Irene and John, Sherlock runs away and looks very upset. Is this because she said she was gay? Because he's relieved she's alive? He does a few things in this ep that really make me think he has strong feelings for her. Maybe not quite love, but close. And I think a little more than just admiration. I have not read the book so I'm just going off the show alone.

There is much room for interpretation as you guys are saying, which I love.

Mattlocked · September 7, 2012 8:37 pm

Just two days ago, when watching SiB again, I was wondering about that dialogue between John and Irene.
John: I'm not gay.
Irene: Well, I am!

I'm thinking about "gay" and "lesbian".
In German you could translate "schwul" and "lesbisch".
I remembered this kind of "joke": If a man tells me: "I am gay" (Ich bin schwul) I answer "I am, too." (Ich auch) it means that he loves men - and I do so, too. So in fact I am straight.

It would be a difference if John would have said: I am not homosexual. And Irene: Well, I am.

Is this understandable?

SusiGo · September 7, 2012 8:42 pm

Yes, I see what you mean. Native speakers, what's your opinion? Does gay apply exclusively to homosexual men and does the dialogue sound strange to you? That's really interesting.

KeepersPrice · September 7, 2012 10:05 pm

Mattlocked wrote:
Just two days ago, when watching SiB again, I was wondering about that dialogue between John and Irene.
John: I'm not gay.
Irene: Well, I am!

I'm thinking about "gay" and "lesbian".
In German you could translate "schwul" and "lesbisch".
I remembered this kind of "joke": If a man tells me: "I am gay" (Ich bin schwul) I answer "I am, too." (Ich auch) it means that he loves men - and I do so, too. So in fact I am straight.

It would be a difference if John would have said: I am not homosexual. And Irene: Well, I am.

Is this understandable?

Yes, it makes sense but with one small caveat to your quote from the show. John did not say, "I'm not gay". The line is, "I'm not actually gay" I was able to read a whole world of interpretation into that word "actually". To my mind it changes a definitive statement into a qualified statement - reflective of something that John might not yet see or admit to himself - but that Irene can see. The writers don't allow unnecessary words - unless I suppose it's an actor's ad lib they agree on. It would have been just as easy for the line to read, "I'm not gay" or 'Actually, I'm not gay", leaving no room for doubt. But it was "I'm not actually gay", meaning John may be quite sure of himself in all other cases before meeting Sherlock; but now maybe is not so sure when it comes to this one particular man. The ambiguity and 'tease' of this aspect in the show continues to delight me.

Here's something interesting. Definition of the word 'sapiosexual' - one who finds intelligence the most sexually attractive feature. Hmm...starting to wonder now if both Irene and John could be considered sapiosexuals. We could then take the whole homosexual thing out of the discussion

Mattlocked · September 7, 2012 11:22 pm

Hm.... "I'm not actually gay" seems to leave even more space for interpretation for "not native speakers" as there seem to be a few possibilities of translations. Here "not actually" means something like "not really" (but MAYbe) gay?
I say "seem to be" because maybe it's just me who is simply not able to translate it right. I think the meaning of "actually" varies from its context or where it's placed in a sentence?

Sapiosexuals is interesting, I didn't even know the word until now. It has a meaning similar to "brainy is the new sexy", right?

Zzzzzz... Time for bed............

Last edited by Mattlocked (September 7, 2012 11:23 pm)

Arya · September 8, 2012 12:12 am

As a native English speaker--gay in reference to a woman generally just means a lesbian woman. Although it's not commonly said, a few tv shows and movies have used it, and you do hear it from time to time.

KeepersPrice · September 8, 2012 3:31 am

Mattlocked wrote:
Hm.... "I'm not actually gay" seems to leave even more space for interpretation for "not native speakers" as there seem to be a few possibilities of translations. Here "not actually" means something like "not really" (but MAYbe) gay?
I say "seem to be" because maybe it's just me who is simply not able to translate it right. I think the meaning of "actually" varies from its context or where it's placed in a sentence?

Very true Matt that the word 'actually' can vary in meaning as well as vary a meaning, depending on context. I can't be sure of the true meaning of 'actually' in John's context, but I interpret it my way because it's fun for me that way. But "I'm not actually gay" could also mean something like, "Look Irene, even though I live with Sherlock Holmes, and even though we solve crimes together, and he steals ashtrays for me, and we seem to be joined at the hip, I'm not actually gay, even though it appears I am." Lot's of ways of looking at this, all of them viable. Crazy language, huh?

Davina · September 8, 2012 6:42 am

For John people keep hinting at a sexual relationship with Sherlock e.g. The newspaper report (confirmed Batchelor John Watson. Confirmed batchelor? What are they getting at?...). So he is at pains to tell Irene that he is not actually gay, as has been suggested in various quarters.

Last edited by Davina (September 8, 2012 6:42 am)

LoveBug54 · September 8, 2012 10:33 pm

Sam wrote:
When Sherlock was eavesdropping on Irene and John, Sherlock runs away and looks very upset. Is this because she said she was gay? Because he's relieved she's alive? He does a few things in this ep that really make me think he has strong feelings for her. Maybe not quite love, but close. And I think a little more than just admiration. I have not read the book so I'm just going off the show alone.

There is much room for interpretation as you guys are saying, which I love.

I think he didn't know how process or even define his feelings about finding out she was actually alive and had faked her death. (I hope he remembers all that when John finds out about his fake death.)

Of course, knowing him, he may have been more upset that she was able to fake her death and fool him. Which still doesn't explain the dead "Irene" in the morgue, but that is one of those loose ends of this episode that has gone unexplained.

I don't think he was in love with her. He was fascinated by her intellect and the fact that he apparently couldn't 'read' her (another plot point that makes no sense to me). Maybe he had a bit of a crush on her but in spite of the fact that Mycroft accused him of allowing her to trick him because of "the promise of love," if you watch him closely, he never showed any physical attraction to her. It was his own ego that tripped him up in the end. He just had to show off what he could read from her text message. He didn't realize her connection with Moriarty, either, which was another mistake on his part.

Sam · September 9, 2012 12:41 am

^ All good points. I was thinking about the showing off thing and at first I did think he was showing off for her but as you pointed out, he does that with everybody. I guess it is just admiration. What about him keeping her phone? I guess I can see sentiment if it's a reminder of a formidable adversary and not a relationship. Still, him getting really upset when she "died" still makes me slightly question. Maybe Sherlock himself was confused haha.

Mattlocked wrote:
Just two days ago, when watching SiB again, I was wondering about that dialogue between John and Irene.
John: I'm not gay.
Irene: Well, I am!

I'm thinking about "gay" and "lesbian".
In German you could translate "schwul" and "lesbisch".
I remembered this kind of "joke": If a man tells me: "I am gay" (Ich bin schwul) I answer "I am, too." (Ich auch) it means that he loves men - and I do so, too. So in fact I am straight.

It would be a difference if John would have said: I am not homosexual. And Irene: Well, I am.

Is this understandable?

Oh, I didn't even think of that. Could be she meant it that way! Is Irene not lesbian then? Because she isn't in the canon, right?

Think we'll hear at least a mention of Irene in future episodes?

The Doctor · September 9, 2012 1:33 am

This is my contribution of 5 minutes of madness. Just because I can.

Russian Guy: You find madame attractive or no?
Sherlock Holmes: I find her most attractive, for a woman that is.
Russian Guy: No problem then.
Sherlock Holmes: Well there may be a slight one, you see I am not a free man.
Russian Guy: But you are bachelor?
Sherlock Holmes: A bachelor, living with anther bachelor for the last five years. Five very happy years.
Russian Guy: What is it you're trying to tell us?
Sherlock Holmes: Well... I was hoping to avoid the subject.

Arya · September 9, 2012 2:16 am

The Doctor wrote:
This is my contribution of 5 minutes of madness. Just because I can.

Russian Guy: You find madame attractive or no?
Sherlock Holmes: I find her most attractive, for a woman that is.
Russian Guy: No problem then.
Sherlock Holmes: Well there may be a slight one, you see I am not a free man.
Russian Guy: But you are bachelor?
Sherlock Holmes: A bachelor, living with anther bachelor for the last five years. Five very happy years.
Russian Guy: What is it you're trying to tell us?
Sherlock Holmes: Well... I was hoping to avoid the subject.

lol...love it

Sam wrote:
Oh, I didn't even think of that. Could be she meant it that way! Is Irene not lesbian then? Because she isn't in the canon, right?

Think we'll hear at least a mention of Irene in future episodes?

She isn't...but the canon Irene is very different from the Sherlock Irene. Also, the canon was written in the late 19th century and early 20th century. Almost no characters were homosexual then.

Maybe we'll hear of her in series 3, but I doubt it will be more than a mention. Moftiss won't want to do the same story twice, and I think Moffat just saved her to surprise us. The rest of the production team didn't even know he was going to save her, meaning they didn't have any plans for her as of series 2. I would enjoy a mention of her in series 3, though.