BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » John´s cheating

besleybean · January 10, 2017 5:12 pm

Well, it's complicated and I'm sorry if anybody shouts at me.
But biology: at the end of the day John is a hot blooded male.
Anyway, I almost feel like we're intruding on private ground here!
It's really between John and Mary and John has spoken to his dead wife about it.
So its done, he can move on now.

ancientsgate · January 11, 2017 4:23 am

besleybean wrote:
Well, it's complicated and I'm sorry if anybody shouts at me.
But biology: at the end of the day John is a hot blooded male.
Anyway, I almost feel like we're intruding on private ground here!
It's really between John and Mary and John has spoken to his dead wife about it.
So its done, he can move on now.

I had surgery this week, so my mind's been elsewhere, but I can't for the life of me figure out why Gatiss used so many of the (only) 120 minutes he's had so far in this season to include this story of John's non-affair. Or his temptation, whatever you want to call it. He exchanged looks with bus lady, he got her number, he flim-flammed around about whether to text her or not, he did, and that's all that happened, at least so far. But I can't figure out what it all has to do with anything. Only 180 minutes in the whole season, why spend so many of them on this? All I can conclude is that it means something beyond a simple encounter on a bus and some texting.

besleybean · January 11, 2017 7:00 am

John is an honourable man( Iknow!).
It meant something to him...he had to deal with his guilt, before he could really let go.

Schmiezi · January 11, 2017 7:25 am

I for one believe that the cheating (that I would not call cheating but John does and that's what counts here) shows thst the Watson marriage has been far from perfect, which makes John's grief and guilt over Mary's death even more intense.

besleybean · January 11, 2017 7:28 am

Of course the marriage wasn't perfect on either side, people are lucky if they do have a perfect marriage.
But I think they would have worked it out: John had already tried to end the texting affair.
His lasting and real grief on Mary's death, was not jut guilt, it was also love....this was also shown with her dying in his arms.
He has been blessed by dead Mary to move on and love again....another woman, as that is what he was seeking.

Schmiezi · January 11, 2017 7:40 am

No, he was not blessed by dead Mary. He was bessed by his own mind.

Btw, I also think it very telling that he imagined dead Mary the way she was before he knew she was an assassin. He basically imagined the woman he met when Sherlock was "dead", not the woman she really was.

Liberty · January 11, 2017 7:46 am

I actually thought this was done very well. I think John's "lies" actually helped him to sympathise with Mary - they were resolving their problems at the end, and John was about to confess. They also made him feel guilty and led to that conversation at the end of TLD, about aspiring to be what Mary saw in him. It also led to the conversation about John being human. And about Sherlock texting Irene! I didn't expect that!

I thought Martin was great in those scenes too - loved him hovering over the bin with the phone number!

And that's all with the lady in red actually being Eurus. And the fact that it gave it another little mystery between the episodes.

So yes, quite a lot from a few brief scenes.

Lola Red · January 11, 2017 12:39 pm

ancientsgate wrote:
I can't for the life of me figure out why Gatiss used so many of the (only) 120 minutes he's had so far in this season to include this story of John's non-affair. Or his temptation, whatever you want to call it. He exchanged looks with bus lady, he got her number, he flim-flammed around about whether to text her or not, he did, and that's all that happened, at least so far. But I can't figure out what it all has to do with anything. Only 180 minutes in the whole season, why spend so many of them on this? All I can conclude is that it means something beyond a simple encounter on a bus and some texting.

I found that time very well spend. A great bit of character development for John and a great basis for what followed. Actually, that was my favourite bit of the episode, but then I have always been more interested in the characters than in the cases.

ancientsgate · January 11, 2017 3:15 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
No, he was not blessed by dead Mary. He was blessed by his own mind.

Btw, I also think it very telling that he imagined dead Mary the way she was before he knew she was an assassin. He basically imagined the woman he met when Sherlock was "dead", not the woman she really was.

Great points! You got it.

Vhanja · January 11, 2017 3:18 pm

Lola Red wrote:
I found that time very well spend. A great bit of character development for John and a great basis for what followed. Actually, that was my favourite bit of the episode, but then I have always been more interested in the characters than in the cases.

I agree. I also found that to be the most interesting part of that episode, and a great way to show character development there and in TLD for John - something I really hoped we would get.

besleybean · January 11, 2017 7:37 pm

And he recognises that Mary made him better.

Schmiezi · January 11, 2017 8:23 pm

besleybean wrote:
And he recognises that Mary made him better.

Well, not yet. She saw him as the better person he is not right now.

besleybean · January 11, 2017 8:25 pm

Yes.

kgreen20 · January 12, 2017 12:52 am

Hopefully, in TFP, he will become better! If TFP is really going to be the last show of the series, that's only right.

besleybean · January 12, 2017 6:51 am

Well the trouble is I don't know if John can change or whether he needs to and dead Mary seemed to acknowledge that.
John fell in love with Mary and wanted to do the right thing: marriage, family...
But he learned such domesticity wasn't for him.
So yes, I think he has been blessed by dead Mary to carry on dating...but I don't know if he'll ever 'settle down' again.
And why should he?

Schmiezi · January 12, 2017 7:09 am

Again, he did not talk to dead Mary, like to a ghost with a will of her own. He talked to what he himself made up. So he allowed himself to date again. :-)

besleybean · January 12, 2017 7:11 am

Well again ok yes, but I don't think he will necessarily change.

Kae Em · January 12, 2017 8:08 am

besleybean wrote:
So yes, I think he has been blessed by dead Mary to carry on dating...but I don't know if he'll ever 'settle down' again.
And why should he?

I didn't understand imaginary Mary's comment as a blessing to carry on dating. I take her "get on with it" that she was telling thim to carry on trying to be/become the good man she always tought he was and he always wanted to be.

ewige · January 12, 2017 8:12 am

Kae Em wrote:
besleybean wrote:
So yes, I think he has been blessed by dead Mary to carry on dating...but I don't know if he'll ever 'settle down' again.
And why should he?
I didn't understand imaginary Mary's comment as a blessing to carry on dating. I take her "get on with it" that she was telling thim to carry on trying to be/become the good man she always tought he was and he always wanted to be.

This is what I think too.
I don't think John is in any state to consider future dating just at that moment.

besleybean · January 12, 2017 5:27 pm

Well then what did he mean by: I wanted more and I still do?
Then Mary says: well get on with it, then.
I presumed this all fit in with John's subsequent conversation with Sherlock, telling him to go for it with Irene!
Grab what happiness you can, we don't know how long we've got.