diva wrote:

Did anyone recognise the line "It is what it is" as a quote from a rather famous poem by Erich Fried? It's from one of the most beautiful poems about love called "Was es ist" - What it is.


Was es ist

Es ist Unsinn
sagt die Vernunft
Es ist was es ist
sagt die Liebe

Es ist Unglück
sagt die Berechnung
Es ist nichts als Schmerz
sagt die Angst
Es ist aussichtslos
sagt die Einsicht
Es ist was es ist
sagt die Liebe

Es ist lächerlich
sagt der Stolz
Es ist leichtsinnig
sagt die Vorsicht
Es ist unmöglich
sagt die Erfahrung
Es ist was es ist
sagt die Liebe

 
Now that you mentioned it. Of course. I always loved it.

Here's the English translation:

What it is

It is nonsense
says reason
It is what it is
says love

It is calamity
says calculation
It is nothing but pain
says fear
It is hopeless
says insight
It is what it is
says love

It is ludicrous
says pride
It is foolish
says caution
It is impossible
says experience
It is what it is 
says love

Last edited by Ivy (January 9, 2017 7:21 pm)

Pops wrote:

- Mycroft and Lady Smallwood ?? Nope, no, no way ! I don't like it AT ALL !! *Mystrade shipper here*

I'll develop more when I've seen it a second time with subtitles because I had difficulties to understand Smith at times...

I'm hearing you sister!, I once opened a Mystrade thread, no one cared.  But honestly at first I was rolling my eyes when Lady Smallwood hitting on Mycroft, because that's so not needed. I mean Sherlock is told he needs to contact Irene Adler and Mycroft needs a love interest, too. It's so weird.  But I mainly find it funny now and I really would like to see if they mention something in the next episode.

I think it's funny/weird that as John pointed out Mycroft can "highjack the machinery of the state to look after your own family" but he doesn't seem to know what Eurus has been up to? Or maybe he does and he's letting her?

Some other points I was thinking about, when Eurus was pretending to be Faith she mentions the one word that brought her whole life down and although it makes sense from Faith's POV I wonder if this is actually Eurus referring to something in her life as well, one word that changed her whole life..Redbeard maybe? Or something else? Also when she says she imagined Sherlock to be different again, I wonder if this is actually Eurus talking as if she was cast out from the family when Sherlock was very young then she wouldn't know his personality as an adult and the only image she would have had of him was fulled by her hate of him for whatever happened, maybe she was been taken aback (for a small moment at least) by how much nicer he is than she, in her hate and rage, imagined.

Yeah, especially as it was followed by Sherlock's memory of the past, it seems more to be a moment between Euros and Sherlock than "Faith" and Sherlock. Also maybe Eurus feels no-one has been nice to her so Sherlock is actually nicer than anyone else has been, but like you say it could also just be her messing with him.

I never noticed this during an ep, but these bloggers have a point:

http://lawyermargo.tumblr.com/post/155624346567/deaflock-i-just-realized-something-how-much

Don't think that matters once the trunk is closed. But I assume they would have asked him if he is ok with it. He would have only been in there for a few seconds with the lid closed (or at least down). I am sure Ben knows what he can handle and would speak up if it got too much.

I am safe and warm in my room at my university and just finished watching the episode so I am here with my reaction.  You people have been busy making posts, I don't think I'll ever get to read all of your discussions on this one, being behind already.

I think this is the darkest, most upsetting episode we've ever had in this show.  But I still thought it was good.  It was just tough in some ways, Culverton Smith is very creepy (like the thing he did with the corpse in the mortuary...eugh).

Sherlock being in such a bad place, and John being part of that along with the drugs, was really tough.  It made me very sad.

I like how we got to see John's mourning represented through his visions of Mary.  I did not expect it and I really liked it.  It showed how John was processing things without him just talking to himself or having dreams.  Grief, and the person your are grieving, can follow you around all day, and Mary being around him conveyed that well.  It also allowed us to see her even if it wasn't really her and she wasn't really there.  It helped bridge the absence that I'm predicting we'll have of her in the next episode.  I'm still going to miss her but I am glad we got one more episode to see her.

When Sherlock got up to hug John, I lost it.  I was sobbing.  And then we got some humour with the man who thinks his wife's possessed and then...WHAM! Plot twist! Before she revealed herself, I got a glimpse of her face and thought she looked like the one we thought was Faith...but the other reveal took me completely off-guard.

Also, it was great to see Mrs. Hudson in such juicy scenes.  I love her even more now.

Last edited by Yitzock (January 9, 2017 11:10 pm)

Lis wrote:

I think it's funny/weird that as John pointed out Mycroft can "highjack the machinery of the state to look after your own family" but he doesn't seem to know what Eurus has been up to? Or maybe he does and he's letting her?

Some other points I was thinking about, when Eurus was pretending to be Faith she mentions the one word that brought her whole life down and although it makes sense from Faith's POV I wonder if this is actually Eurus referring to something in her life as well, one word that changed her whole life..Redbeard maybe? Or something else? Also when she says she imagined Sherlock to be different again, I wonder if this is actually Eurus talking as if she was cast out from the family when Sherlock was very young then she wouldn't know his personality as an adult and the only image she would have had of him was fulled by her hate of him for whatever happened, maybe she was been taken aback (for a small moment at least) by how much nicer he is than she, in her hate and rage, imagined.

I absolutely love this !! It could very well be the truth ! 
 

stoertebeker wrote:

The things, that I didn’t understand, didn’t find plausible or simply didn’t like:

• Sherlock is back on drugs and even has a drug lab in his kitchen – why on earth did nobody interferes? OK, Mrs. Hudson said, she didn’t want to call the police, I understand. But she could have called Molly or Greg as friends. Or both could have checked on Sherlock frequently, they must have known that Mary’s death and the rift with John would affect him deeply. And what about Mycroft? He just observes his brother (who’s latest relapse was just a couple of weeks ago) via CCTV and does nothing more!? He even seemed oblivious of Sherlock producing drugs. Sorry, but the behaviour of all these characters weren’t plausibly to me. (Unless they were all part of Sherlock’s rescue-John-Watson-plan, but I still can’t believe they would allow Sherlock using to this extend.)
• Mrs. Hudson is a great character, I really like her and I liked the way she tried to help “her boys” and how she stood up in front of Mycroft and his minions. But the police car chasing scene was IMO very much exaggerated, too much James Bond style and once again Mycroft as the deus ex machina that resolved the situation.
• Lestrade was hardly there in this episode. I’m generally not happy how they treat his character in S4. In TST he looked like an idiot who isn’t able to solve one single case by himself and in TLD he just asked idiotic questions. I really miss the Lestrade from S1 and S2.
• Molly hasn’t had much scenes in both episodes either. I hope we’ll see more of her next Sunday.
• The scene of Culverton Smith’s confession séance was creepy, surreal and well made. But I don’t understand why anybody of his “friends” would participate and let themselves drugged with a memory affecting narcotic voluntarily. And how did Eurus got the information about these sessions to tell Sherlock about it? (By the way, the woman at the scene in the beginning (the first séance), was this Sian Brooke or the actress of the real Faith Smith?)
• The setup at John’s therapist – seriously? Sherlock had everything, I mean everything (like Mrs. Hudson kidnapping him) planned two weeks in advance? That’s not plausible IMO, too many factors that couldn’t fit.
• How did Sherlock placed the recording device in John’s cane? At first, I thought that the cane was still in Baker Street and that John had fetched it there before he visited Sherlock in hospital. But no, when John arrived at the flat later it seemed as if he hasn’t been there for a long time. So the cane was with him at home and Sherlock must have burgled into John’s flat to prepare the cane at some point. Very disturbing thought, but maybe he did it when John was at work.
• I’m not really sure what I should make of the dialog about Irene and Sherlock’s potential feelings towards her. I don’t see any. Didn’t he said that he never replies? That scene confused me.
• Also I found the revelation that it’s Sherlock birthday a bit strange. On the other hand, being reunited with John was probably the best present he could get.
• I wasn’t convinced about the idea with the secret sibling back then at HLV and I still don’t like it. And now it’s not only an unknown brother but a sister! I’m seriously suspecting Moftiss to read fanfictions to get some ideas for their plots. Maybe it will work fine, we’ll see. As I said, I liked the performance at the end of TLD but I’m nevertheless not fond of the secret family member storyline.
• After seeing the whole recording of Mary and hearing Sherlock’s explanation I can’t help the feeling that John has been once again manipulated by Sherlock (and Mary posthumously). I know it’s for the greater good (bringing John back to life) but it still leaves a sour taste to me.

Sorry, this was rather long now. I hope nobody gets angry with me for criticizing the episode. As I said it’s not that I don’t like it, I just have difficulties to get my head around it. I’ll definitely have to watch it again and in TFP there might be some explanations or further aspects that might reconcile me with this episode.

First I have to say that - while I hated TST -  I loved every second of TLD. What a rollercoaster ride Season 4 has been  But of course not everyone has the same taste and you're making some really good points about^the things that bothered you. I agree with most of them, although they don't bother me to an extent that would make me like the episode less. Here some of my own thougths/explanations:

- Why did nobody interfere with Sherlock's drug use? I assume Sherlock's evening with Eurus/Fake-Faith took place  immediatly after the events of TST. So between Mary's death and the main events in TLD lay only a time span of approximatly three weeks. I guess Molly and Greg were very buisi with their jobs and taking care of little Rosie, so there wasn't much time left in these three weeks to take care of Sherlock as well. Knowing him, he had locked himself inside his appartment and didn't let them in. So trying to get to him would take either of them much more time than they actually had, so they probably just gave up. As for Mycroft, I don't know. Maybe he was very busy doing other things during those three weeks, may some "criminal sister escaped from instituation" matter? Or maybe Sherlock had assured him he was just pretending to be back on drugs to get to John? But I agree that it's not like Mycroft to not check in on his brother from time to time during these three weeks right after the traumatic events of TST. On the other hand, Mycroft  is not exactly keen on emotional exchanges/openly giving emotional support, so he probably convinced himself it would be enough to watch Sherlock's actions from afar at first? Maybe even he didn't expect Sherlock to selfdistruct that fast within three weeks? We'll probably never know.

- The confession scéance was creepy as hell and I don't think there was much free will involved in the end. I think that everyone was extremely afraid of what CS would do to them if they refused the drug. Of course, thanks to the drug, they forgot all about it afterwards.

- The actress in the séance scene was not Sian Brooke but the actress of the real Faith Smith. Eurus learned about this séance from CS himself, as she tells John in the last scene. Someone introduced her and CS, CS gave her Faith's original note and told her about the séance. I guess it was their common plan to bring down/kill Sherlock.

- Sherlock hadn't planned his "abduction" in advance. He said himself that he hadn't counted on being driven to the therapist in the trunk of a car. But he had planned in advance that this would be the exact day Mrs. Hudson would drive him there, yes. So he chose to behave lake a raving lunatic on that particular day at that particular time so Mrs. Hudson would feel the need to drive him to John as fast as possible (I wonder who informed Mycroft: Sherlock himself or Mrs. Hudson?). That wasn't so difficult to pull off. And as far as I remember he had arranged the lunch date with CS two or even three week earlier right after meeting Fake-Faith (and before openly accusing him of being a serial killer), so that wasn't so hard to plan either. Neither was Molly's apearance. All in all, we've seen Sherlock doing much more difficult dedutions in the past, so that scene didn't bother me at all. The only real deduction was John switching therapists, everything else was just clever planning/staging.

- Maybe John had left his cane up in his room at baker street? Maybe he just hadn't been in Sherlock's flat. To get to his former room, which is upstairs, he wouldn't have had to enter Sherlock's flat. And I don't think Sherlock has removed anything from John's room since John left Baker Street . . . But obviously I wouldn't put it past Sherlock to brake into John's flat. Or maybe John kept the cane at work and Sherlock got some nurse/orderly/cleaning person to put a recording device in it. The possibilties are endless.

- Sherlock first said he doesn't ever reply to Irene's texts. Later he admitted that sometimes he does reply, but it's just texts, nothing more. I don't know which one of these statements was a lie, but I assume the second admission was true, althogh he could just have said that to make John feel better. Wether he actually has - in some way - romantic feelings for her, we don't know for sure. I think even Sherlock doesn't know for sure and doesn't want to find out, although John told him to do so.

These are just my two cents to some of the points you made. Of course I might be totally wrong and they may not be likely to change your opinion about the episode, but I thought your points might be a good basis for an interesting discussion. And by the way: I don't think anyone has a reason to be angry with you for not liking the episode. Not everyone has to like the same things and there wouldn't be any interesting discussion if everyone shared the same opinion


 

SharonH58 wrote:

I am not liking this season at all.  I didn't like this episode.  I have a lot to comment on but of course left it at home (I am at work).  But I'll ask some questions.  why did Mrs Hudson call Mycroft a reptile when all he was doing was clearing out Sherlock's drug stuff and trying to find him?   Sherlock is smart but I don't think he can plan what is going to happen in 2 weeks time.  Did he get Molly to just say he was that ill or was he really?  Did he have Billy- aka Mr White- giving him low dose drugs so he would appear under the influence so he could then act crazier?  What made this Smith guy the worse bad guy they have had?  I think Moriarty was worse.   I agree that the sister (which I think is a stupid idea) had been working with Moriarty but I don't think she actually shot John.  John's anger was too much especially if he believed Sherlock was high,  how could he have defended himself but then it was all part of Sherlock's stupid plan. 
I love Mrs Hudson.  She was the only good part of this episode.  And I liked Billy too.

Why did Mrs. Hudson call Mycroft a reptile? Well, I can only guess, but my take on this is that reptiles are cold-blooded animals. Mycroft tends to/wants to seem emotionally cold and Mrs. Hudson had just asked that everyone with just a spark of human decency (I can't remember her exact words) should leave the room. Mycroft didn't react to this, so once again made sure to come off as cold, not understanding human emotion. So calling him a reptile wasn't that far-fetched.

Sherlock didn't have to predict a lot of what was going to happen in two weeks time. He just had to predict how long it would take John to switch to a new therapist and who this therapist would be. And he had to predict that John would want Molly to examin him. We've seen him do more difficult predictions in the past. The rest was easy to plan: He suggested to CS to meet on that exact date at that exact address, and he timed his "breakdown" in front of Mrs. Hudson to take place on that same date. He didn't forsee that she would stuff him into the trunk of her car, though.

I think the abuse of drugs was real, though, not just staged or a lower dose of drugs. He had to go trough hell for real to get John back.

I found CS to be more creepy than Morarty, but did they intend him to be the worst bad guy they ever had? I don't know, they're hard to compare.

Yes, John's anger went too far, but it was just three weeks after Mary's death, he was full of repressed pain, guilt and self loathing and projecting all of this on Sherlock. So yeah, he totally lost control there in the hospital, he shouldn't have and there's not really an excuse, but I still can understand his reaction to some extent.