BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » John´s cheating

Vhanja · January 8, 2017 12:41 pm

I agree, this episode was actually quite John-centric. I liked that.

besleybean · January 8, 2017 12:42 pm

Old school Sherlock!

Mothonthemantel · January 8, 2017 2:15 pm

Yes. Old school. I think it's something similar to in the final problem when Holmes sent Watson a note with a complex way of travel to meet him.

besleybean · January 8, 2017 3:28 pm

So linked to them both following Mary?

ancientsgate · January 8, 2017 4:40 pm

There was actually no proof that Bus Lady was just some random female who found John (wedding ring and all!) attractive. For all we know, she's some kind of double agent, or someone Sherlock had told John to expect to meet up with on the bus (therefore working with Sherlock on something).

The texting never showed that it was Bus Lady with whom he was texting. Even dithering at the trash can about whether or not to throw Bus Lady's phone number away, that could have just been John wondering if he could trust his memory enough to not forget what was written there.

And lastly, when John was sitting on the sofa with Mary and telling her he had something to tell her, just as S's text came in about coming to the aquarium, again, we don't know what in hell he was about to tell her. We were led to jump to the conclusion that he was going to tell her about Bus Lady, but we don't know that.

Watson is a beloved character in the Sherlock universe, in all of the different Sherlock 'verses, in fact. To me, it's more believable to think about Bus Lady being a contact of some type, an agent of some organization or other, in spite of the way we were led to believe she was just some attractive female of a certain age who couldn't resist a cute mature guy.

We should know more tonight. I look forward to it.

ancientsgate · January 8, 2017 4:41 pm

Liberty wrote:
You know, I found it kind of touching as well! Very human and very forgiveable. I thought it was very well done and very well acted by Martin. His to and fro hovering over the bin reminded me of "oscillation upon the pavement always means an affaire de coeur" from A Case of Identity. So I'm happy for it to stay as it is from John's side, but I'm also suspecting there's more to it from the other side.

With Gatiss, rest assured that there will always be more to it from the other side.

ancientsgate · January 8, 2017 4:42 pm

Vhanja wrote:
I agree, this episode was actually quite John-centric. I liked that.

Funny, 'cause I think it was definitely Mary-centric. In fact, they could have renamed the show "Mary" IMO.

besleybean · January 8, 2017 4:43 pm

Hmmm...
Oh we cross posted...
Well maybe so.
But people were screaming for both more back story to Mary and to get her out the show...so there you are.

Last edited by besleybean (January 8, 2017 4:44 pm)

kgreen20 · January 8, 2017 5:12 pm

And I'm glad they did. Now, if only they'll give us some more back story on John!

Last edited by kgreen20 (January 8, 2017 5:14 pm)

kgreen20 · January 8, 2017 5:14 pm

Liberty wrote:
You know, I found it kind of touching as well! Very human and very forgiveable. I thought it was very well done and very well acted by Martin. His to and fro hovering over the bin reminded me of "oscillation upon the pavement always means an affaire de coeur" from A Case of Identity. So I'm happy for it to stay as it is from John's side, but I'm also suspecting there's more to it from the other side.

The modern-day Sherlock said the same thing in a flashback sequence on The Sign of Three, except that instead of "an affaire de coeur," he said "a love affair."

besleybean · January 8, 2017 5:20 pm

Quite so.
Never understood why people feel we need more back story on John...

kgreen20 · January 9, 2017 3:53 am

Maybe for the same reason people welcome more back story on Sherlock and Mary? [shrugs]

besleybean · January 9, 2017 6:41 am

Well I wonder if we've run out of time now, anyway.

Liberty · January 9, 2017 8:43 am

I think we have.

Anyway, it was great to get our answers in TLD! It really was just texting. And it was to the bus stop lady, and it was with romantic intent. I still think it's understandable and forgiveable (as I think Sherlock and ghost Mary helped him see!).

Lola Red · January 9, 2017 11:44 am

Yes, all the answers were given. Not something we see often in this show, but I am glad for it.

WhoIWantToBe · January 9, 2017 12:16 pm

This cheating theme did not go anywhere I thought it would. There were some very odd things that looked remarkably like clues. In my former career, I was a film VFX supervisor/ post production producer and every singe shot was chosen (and filmed) for strong impact. Nothing was a throwaway or coincidence.

I mainly was suspicious because after John received the note from bus lady, we see his phone photo and the time. We cut to his kitchen, where he has the stocks/finances page of the newspaper spread open on the table. So, when is John Watson ever seriously into reading stocks and financials? We are explicitly SHOWN the paper when it cuts to a close up of his watch and the paper. It shows a flash of the paper, just full of numbers (code???? cipher????) and deliberately shows teh time on his watch- just over 11am.

I rewatched the scene. The look on his face, and the position he holds the paper from the bus lady looks like he is holding it above the paper, comparing something. And then he gets this 'aha' moment on his face, like 'really!!??' It looks like he quickly checks something, makes a decision, then we see his watch and the fact that the paper he is reading is full of numbers and potential codes to a cipher.

Just... from my former professional background, that is way, way too deliberate. Especially after planting a seed with the official birth announcement in the paper, weirdly stating that Sherlock is always on his phone. And the message the bus lady gives him is to... a phone. But now after watching TLD, I have no idea what to think. I was SURE John received a message from Sherlock, who is absolutely known to do this in previous episodes and canon (homeless network/ragamuffin network?). Then at the start of TLD, John says something like 'if Sherlock wanted to get in touch, he'd be pretty obvious/make sure you knew'. Really??? And then in TLD this is never follwed up on? It seems like it HAS to be more than a throwaway.

Anyway. I can be totally, completely wrong but why the heck did John's kitchen scene play out that way? It could have been acted/played so many ways, but like that, it leaves a TON of doubt as to John's real intentions (cheating vs ciphering).

*edited for thumbs typing on mobile...

Last edited by WhoIWantToBe (January 9, 2017 12:19 pm)

besleybean · January 9, 2017 4:35 pm

Sorry you are having problems with this.
It seems fairly clear to me.
Planted lady gives John her number.
John hesitates but decides to text.
That's all he actually does...but he was really wanting to take matters further.

ancientsgate · January 9, 2017 7:47 pm

Liberty wrote:
I think we have.

Anyway, it was great to get our answers in TLD! It really was just texting. And it was to the bus stop lady, and it was with romantic intent. I still think it's understandable and forgiveable (as I think Sherlock and ghost Mary helped him see!).

I loved ghost!Mary. Gatiss wrote her as very wise and brave, maybe she always was, I don't know. Or maybe when people turn into ghosts, they get to say what's right and insist on things and accept things they cannot change.

besleybean · January 9, 2017 7:49 pm

Didn't Steven write this episode?

ancientsgate · January 9, 2017 7:49 pm

besleybean wrote:
Sorry you are having problems with this.
It seems fairly clear to me.
Planted lady gives John her number.
John hesitates but decides to text.
That's all he actually does...but he was really wanting to take matters further.

That's what we've been led to think so far anyway. God knows what the last episode of this season will leave us with.