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September 2, 2012 5:08 pm  #421


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I agree. I just think anyone saying he fell into a garbage truck or into a human mattress is ignoring that this would be clearly visible to anyone on or who has a view of the front of the hospital. Those who say he threw a dummy double and then changed places on the ground would have to explain how Sherlock beat a falling corpse to the bottom of a hospital and won (he was there to make the switch).

I still think the clue that Moftiss originally said everyone was missing was call John on the phone. Every episode, Sherlock texts John as well as Mycroft, Moriarty, Irene Addler, and Lestrade and Donovan in the first episode. In the Great Game, Sherlock says of Mycroft that he never texts when he can call. The opposite is true of Sherlock. In The Hounds of Baskerville, it was John who called Sherlock. It's not hard to believe in The Fall, the continuation of The Great Game, we would see Sherlock breaking the rule just as Mycroft did because of his dental surgery. I think there's more of a reason to Sherlock's call than to leave an emotional note.

I think there's a similar play of foiling The Great Game with Sherlock's text to Moriarty. In The Great Game, Sherlock texts he has something Moriarty wants, the Bruce Partington plans, which turns out to be wrong. In the Fall, Sherlock again texts Moriarty he has something Moriarty might want back, the key, which Moriarty gets wrong because Holmes figured out it was a fake. In The Great Game, Sherlock makes a mistake and incorrectly guesses Moriarty's plan. In The Fall, the roles are reversed.

Last edited by Lupin (September 2, 2012 6:09 pm)


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September 2, 2012 5:55 pm  #422


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

The out of character thing was said about two days after the episode aired; we've probably figured it out by now. It could be Sherlock calling John, however, IMO it was just Sherlock leaving his 'note', and I don't see a text working as well. Also, it's Moftiss's way of putting an emotional scene in. That scene wouldn't have worked nearly as well if no one had uttered a word.

 

September 5, 2012 3:52 pm  #423


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

The only thing that struck me as truely out of character was Sherlock going all needy with Molly, but I don't see how that provides a clue. It tells me Molly is 'in' on the trick suicide, but not how it was done. I've seen it and seen it, but I'm not observing and it's driving me mad.   


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What do 'real' people have, then, in their 'real' lives?

So we go round the sun; if we went round the moon, or round and round the garden like a teddy bear, it wouldn't make any difference.

The consolation of imaginary things is not imaginary consolation. -- Roger Scruton
 

September 5, 2012 4:26 pm  #424


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Then the only thing that helps is.... patience................... 

Last edited by Mattlocked (September 5, 2012 4:26 pm)


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September 5, 2012 4:38 pm  #425


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

hypergreenfrog wrote:

Maybe we should all get an "outsider" to watch the scenes just once, and then discuss their theories rather than ours?

Fine, on Friday I will meet a nurse who has seen TRF then for the first time ever 
- but I wonder if anything will be better than Mattlocked's comment 

Last edited by Harriet (September 5, 2012 4:40 pm)


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September 5, 2012 4:42 pm  #426


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Great, so you can use her as a human guinea pig. Let's hear her theories then. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

September 5, 2012 5:13 pm  #427


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I hope she didn't cover her eyes - like me ... 


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... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

September 6, 2012 1:16 pm  #428


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

A friend of mine (a human, not a scull!) just watched it for the first time as well. In her opinion, he didn't jump into that  garbage truck. But she didn't know how he survived, too.


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September 6, 2012 1:22 pm  #429


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Ronny Dax wrote:

A friend of mine (a human, not a scull!) just watched it for the first time as well. In her opinion, he didn't jump into that  garbage truck. But she didn't know how he survived, too.

To me, that looked like a laundry truck. When I paused the DVD and looked closely, the bags in the truck seemed to be made of cloth (pale blue, as I remember)-- and the first thing I thought of was that it was the hospital's laundry service. If so, that would make a more cushy place to fall than a garbage truck. Whatever it is, it definitely was there when he fell, and it definitely pulled away just after people rushed over to him on the sidewalk.

 

October 4, 2012 3:54 pm  #430


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Well, whatever it is, it's involved. But he couldn't jump on it, because he just leaned forward and without taking a few steps he couldn't reach it.


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"Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books, lately?" -Q-
 

October 11, 2012 12:33 pm  #431


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Harriet wrote:

hypergreenfrog wrote:

Maybe we should all get an "outsider" to watch the scenes just once, and then discuss their theories rather than ours?

Fine, on Friday I will meet a nurse who has seen TRF then for the first time ever 

So, this took a while but finally it worked 

She found him observing the whole place very thoroughly and his jumping style didn't look normal to her,
so she thinks there must be a trick about his way of jumping, so that he hit the ground not too badly injured.

- But I think if that are actual head injuries, they look disastrous.
And I wonder if one could control such a jump without panicking 

She said, well, after all, it's Sherlock 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

October 11, 2012 1:40 pm  #432


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Thank you for putting my theory to the test, Harriet! Your friend did come up with slightly different ideas, so in a way it worked.

But I guess I have to agree with you... I cannot imagine there is a way of "controlling" a jump from such a high building, the body simply cannot survive undamaged (and from the graveyard scene we know that he was not badly injured).

Unless of course she meant that while observing the surroundings, he saw that there was something which could break his fall half way down if he jumped from a certain spot, rather than just randomly jumping off the front of the building.


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"There is no such word as 'impossible' in my dictionary. In fact, everything between 'herring' and 'marmalade' seems to be missing." Dirk Gently

Finally, I have made it to Cipher Expert :-))))) (8.8.2012)
 

October 11, 2012 6:49 pm  #433


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Welcome  , this little test felt both exciting and somewhat awkward turning my friend into a test subject 
Yea, she thinks he was searching for something (only) he knew.
But on the other hand, she thinks he hasn't planned to jump - "then he could have acted faster".

- like the rest of us, more or less 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

October 12, 2012 7:22 am  #434


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

I never posted here anything earlier bcoz i am an average viewer of Sherlock.. mad after the show for sure, but I watched the Reichenbach fall only three times(I say only because i know there r a lot of people here who have watched it umpteen number of times ). Anyways, according to me, Sherlock basically did two things 'out of character' in this episode:
1) He appeared confused in front of Moriarty on the final roof scene. (fumbled with his words and got most things wrong).
2) He "cried" literally..we could clearly see tears falling from his eyes down his chin..

Out of these two, I think the first one, he did on purpose, to let Moriarty blurt out the truth and confess his crime. (I am sure, Sherlock had that small camera that he found at his 221B room, hidden beneath his collar or somewhere for sure that recorded everything. Sherlock wears so many things.. There is an ample space for hiding things. Because, he had kept it. (But then i also think that if he wanted to record the conversation, he cud've also switched on the recorder of his cell phone.. anyways, don't know..)I am very confident there has to be an involvement of that camera)

The second one is the real clue i think. coz, crying is something that I can never associate with BBC's Sherlock. So, I agree with all those people who introduced the Rhondendrum (or whatever..) drug theory.
Now how did he survive the fall?
I don't agree with blankets and truck theories. Why? Like most of the people have already written, that all this could've easily been seen by the people on road, plus, I don't think Sherlock knew in advance, that Moriarty would die. So, sherlock would've definitely planned his death keeping in mind, that Moriarty would make sure that he actually falls on the ground. So, now I can't say what happened but here's my guess. Perhaps, sherlock was wearing some life saving jacket kind of a thing beneath his Shirt. We've seen that white thing appearing while he was falling down. Sherlock normally tucks his shirt inside, so while he was falling, how could we see his vest ?  So, i feel it was not a vest, rather some equipment/jacket to help him suffer from as less injuries as possible. (Maybe the shape/design/length of that jacket was such that Sherlock cudn't keep his shirt inside.) Plus sherlock cud've gone on the roof 'not wearing that long coat' as Sun was shining above, and i don't think it was that cold  . Remember, in the Great Game confrontation with Moriarty, he didnt wear his long coat.. Anyways, i don't know what i m saying..but basically, what i mean to say is that he wore the long coat because h e had to hide many things 


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October 12, 2012 8:02 am  #435


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Tho it's the 1st time we also see Moriarty in an over coat! Roofs are quite breezy, but then yes, I surprise Moriarty WAS hiding a gun!
Having said that, would Sherlock have spotted he was carrying a gun?
I have wondered about the camera and the phone...interesting he drops his phone before jumping.


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October 12, 2012 8:02 am  #436


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Interesting ideas  I tend to think Sherlock would be able to cry fake tears like any good actor, but that is not of importance.
How do you deal with the head injuries?


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

October 12, 2012 8:30 am  #437


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

monitaa wrote:

Perhaps, sherlock was wearing some life saving jacket kind of a thing beneath his Shirt. We've seen that white thing appearing while he was falling down. Sherlock normally tucks his shirt inside, so while he was falling, how could we see his vest ?

I've heard this brought up before and I'm not sure whether there's been an official statement (extremely doubtful) or if it was just discussed, but the shot you're talking about is of the stuntman, and the "white thing" is his t-shirt that he's wearing underneath the shirt. I don't know that it's a deliberate inclusion for the character (it's natural the shirt would come untucked whilst falling). It could be relevant, but I personally doubt it.


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October 12, 2012 12:40 pm  #438


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Wholocked wrote:

monitaa wrote:

Perhaps, sherlock was wearing some life saving jacket kind of a thing beneath his Shirt. We've seen that white thing appearing while he was falling down. Sherlock normally tucks his shirt inside, so while he was falling, how could we see his vest ?

I've heard this brought up before and I'm not sure whether there's been an official statement (extremely doubtful) or if it was just discussed, but the shot you're talking about is of the stuntman, and the "white thing" is his t-shirt that he's wearing underneath the shirt. I don't know that it's a deliberate inclusion for the character (it's natural the shirt would come untucked whilst falling). It could be relevant, but I personally doubt it.

This has been discussed quite a bit on various occasions, but for me the discussion already get's unrealistic before you even reach the question of whether it was the stuntman or not.
What I am trying to say is, an airbag you wear round your waist won't break a fall from such an altitude enough to prevent head injuries.

I understand that with Mycroft's help Sherlock probably had access to the best techology there is, but still... this "white thing" we see is quite small, there is (for me) no way it would have been large enough to cover this entire body, including his head, by the time he hit the ground.

Also, it leaves the question what happend to this device afterwards? If it actually inflated so far as to successfully break the fall, it would have had to be at least 2m long, bright white and full of air. How would the helpers manage to get it out of sight completely by the time John arrives?


________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"There is no such word as 'impossible' in my dictionary. In fact, everything between 'herring' and 'marmalade' seems to be missing." Dirk Gently

Finally, I have made it to Cipher Expert :-))))) (8.8.2012)
 

October 12, 2012 12:58 pm  #439


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Hello guys
I think Benedict did this stunt himself.. See this http://www.hypable.com/2012/01/21/benedict-cumberbatch-discusses-sherlock-finale/
There's also a video version of this interview. Forgive my English, but from the 'quoted' part, what I understand is that Benedict did this stunt himself...
Anyways, I am not confident about the 'white thing' theory myself but then if it had no purpose, it surely doesn't look good onscreen  . Editors should've ideally omitted it coz its clearly visible..
Rest I think, we should all think in the direction that what if 'Moriarty was alive and stood right besides Sherlock to see him actually falling".. coz right now most of us discussing the theories assuming that Sherlock planned everything knowing well that Moriarty will be dead by the time, he has to perform the fall.. 


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Look at those cheekbones, I could cut myself slapping that face… would you like me to try?
 

October 13, 2012 6:45 am  #440


Re: Go on then...what are your theories?

Hmm I interpreted it that he did part of it and a stuntman did the wide shot stuff but having re-read that link I think you're right and he did it all himself.


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I dislike being outnumbered. It makes for too much stupid in the room

 

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