We might have different viewpoints on this, but to me, those kind of texts are really bordering on infidelity. Not because of the sex part (which hasn't happened), but the emotional part (flirting, emotional separation from your partner, disloyalty).

About the 'affair'. Which I did think seem a bit 'not okay' the way John was creeping about (and personally an 'almost affair' is still an affair to me).

But... didn't she sort of have a bit of Mary about her?

It sort of reminded me of a film I watched ages ago where a woman disguised herself and made her husband fall for her... to catch him cheating...

Okay I edited my initial response to include my reactions to all of the posts before mine.
But I'm now up to where I joined the discussion...so I'll make other responses(to the later posts) here.
Yes...there may well still be some real danger to John: he is Sherlock's weakness.
Plus why would Mary cite him and not Rosie?
I really don't want people to be too hard on Mary: okay yes she excluded Sherlock and John again.  But she was trying to protect them and Rosie.
But then don't be too hard on John either.  He obvioulsy loves his child and will do his best by here.  But it's sometimes difficult for a new dad to adjust.
Well I am about to go to bed, but I want to leave on this note: this episode confirms to me that BBC Sherlock is the best TV show ever.  I have been with Mark and Steven throughout their journey and will stay with them.

Last edited by besleybean (January 1, 2017 11:21 pm)

Liberty wrote:

tonnaree wrote:

Swanpride wrote:

Bus stop lady is easily the worst addition they ever did to the show, because of the way they portrayed her as "targeting" John...it takes too much responsibility away from him, as if he wasn't a guy who was getting around beforehand.

Plus, what kind of woman flirts with a guy who wears a wedding ring?

People, men and women, flirt with married people all the time.  Some people honestly don't care.  I knew a woman years ago who only "dated" married men!  She said she liked the challenge.    I don't approve and I don't excuse, I'm just saying it's not an usual thing to happen.

People have open marriages too, and people wear wedding rings without being married  (or being widows/widowers, ironically, given the episode ending).

But still, I think the girl was quite blatantly targetting him - I don't mean that to be judgmental at all, just that it seems possibly sinister.  We all wondered if he'd been targeted by Mary in that way.   I mean that bus stop lady might be working for somebody. 

I don't think John did anything terribly wrong, fidelity wise, either.   I thought it would be more than that (as I did wonder if he was going to have an affair), but it was a few texts in the end.  He was tempted, but didn't quite succumb. 

Also that strange move with her hand to the back of her head while turning away from John... Awkwardness or checking if the wig was still in place?

besleybean wrote:

Plus why would Mary cite him and not Rosie?

I think because it's not a real danger from a third party but John being an idiot himself.
Rosie will be fine.
John needs help to be fine.

SolarSystem wrote:

tobeornot221b wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

No tears here. It all felt very surreal to me. Will have to watch it again. 

So just this: too much Mary. Not enough John. John is next to non-existent, no good scenes with Sherlock, no warmth between them. If I had to cry, then about this. 

My thoughts exactly.
Not even warmth between John and the baby. I didn't even understand his attraction to the flower power girl. This John was a strange one to me.

I totally agree. Where was all that coming from? I don't understand John in this episode at all. And someone already mentioned it, he is a soldier, he has seen life and death - and we're meant to believe that he would really truly believe in Sherlock's vow? John must know that Sherlock can't always be there to protect them. Of course he is heartbroken about Mary's death, I totally get that, but there is no believable drama in there for me when it comes to his reaction towards Sherlock.

Apart from that: Yes, not enough John, too much Mary, 221B felt totally alien to me... at this point I have completely lost touch with the show.
 

 
I am tired, have to get up early again but want to sign everything that was written above before I go to bed.
I'm sad that I was disappointed again.

ewige wrote:

Liberty wrote:

I don't think John did anything terribly wrong, fidelity wise, either.   I thought it would be more than that (as I did wonder if he was going to have an affair), but it was a few texts in the end.  He was tempted, but didn't quite succumb. 

He almost didn't succumb. But then they met at the bus stop and I really think he went all the way thru with that.

I think I missed that.  I thought they hadn't quite got round to going anywhere with it.   But I think you could well be right.  Yet another thing I need to watch again. 

Vhanja wrote:

We might have different viewpoints on this, but to me, those kind of texts are really bordering on infidelity. Not because of the sex part (which hasn't happened), but the emotional part (flirting, emotional separation from your partner, disloyalty).

Well, they are bordering on infidelity, but if it's just the texts (and no intimate Snapchat piccies!), then it felt to me more like the fantasy of a different kind of life, away from crying babies.  I think it's actually really hard to say where infidelity stops and starts.  I think flirting is OK if it doesn't lead to anything ... but I suppose what matters is whether John thought it was OK, and whether he thought Mary would think it was OK.

ewige wrote:

Lis wrote:

It must be just grief talking and John will come to realise that it wasn't Sherlock's fault. He also feels guilt for his part with the bus lady and Mary died believing John was perfect when he knew he wasn't.

No she didn't die believing John was perfect. She picked up his modile from the night stand, remember?

I thought it was John who picked up the phone? I'll have to go back and watch again but even if she did know, John didn't know that she knew and he still wasn't the one to tell her and that's why he feels guilty.
 

Last edited by Lis (January 1, 2017 11:14 pm)

SusiGo wrote:

As for bus stop lady - she is much more than we think. She will come back in TLD, believe me. 

Yes, I expect her to be back, as well. Still, what we've seen of her and John so far tells us one or two things about John. He didn't throw her number away, he contacted her, he texted her in the middle of the night... where was all that coming from? It felt to me as if I don't know this John at all.

edit: Ah, interesting, Susi, thanks for mentioning this.
 

Last edited by SolarSystem (January 1, 2017 11:17 pm)

This Is The Phantom Lady wrote:

About the 'affair'. Which I did think seem a bit 'not okay' the way John was creeping about (and personally an 'almost affair' is still an affair to me).

But... didn't she sort of have a bit of Mary about her?

It sort of reminded me of a film I watched ages ago where a woman disguised herself and made her husband fall for her... to catch him cheating...

Well, I wondered if she was an agent hired by somebody.  But yes, she could have been hired by Mary.  Interesting thought.   Maybe that's what Mary is warning Sherlock about in the video. 

There really is more to this, I think.