Swanpride wrote:

Bus stop lady is easily the worst addition they ever did to the show, because of the way they portrayed her as "targeting" John...it takes too much responsibility away from him, as if he wasn't a guy who was getting around beforehand.

Plus, what kind of woman flirts with a guy who wears a wedding ring?

I don't see it like that. He was fully aware of what he was doing and what his responsibilities was - even to the point of trying to end it with her before it even started.

I kind of liked the addition. It added something new to John's character. Just like with Sherlock - not everything he did is something I can defend. Same with John - I can't defend being unfaithful with your wife. But I LOVE that they go to those places, it makes the characters SO much more interesting.

I can understand John's first reaction when Mary died, but I don't understand why he keeps blaming Sherlock afterwards.

​I mean, Mary once shot Sherlock and Sherlock shot Magnussen (knowing very well what would happen to him by doing so) to protect both John and Mary. He would have done anything to protect Mary. Surely, John knows that.

​But i'm sure he'll come back to his senses later. (I blamed a lot of people after my husband's suicide, including himself, and then I realised I was only blaming myself. I think John mostly feels guilty for having caressed the idea of cheating on Mary -- or actually cheated on her -- and it's easier to blame anyone but yourself...)

​What do you think of Mary's "Go to Hell, Sherlock!" at the end of the episode??

​Does she mean it in the literal or in the figurative sense?

​I can't see why she'd say such a thing to Sherlock after everything he's done for her, so I think she really means that to save John, Sherlock will have to go to "Hell" because it's gonna be a really dark case.

​Anyway, who would want John dead?

Mary's enemies who'd want to avenge themselves on her? Mary's dead so what's the point?

​People who wants to erase any track of Mary's existence? John practically knows nothing about her past so it would be quite pointless too...

​Also, it confuses me that Sherlock didn't anticipate Vivian Norbury's actions. When I saw her, I immediately thought "she must have a gun hidden in her bag". It buggers me that Sherlock was fooled so easily.

​Oh, I liked how Mycroft lectures Sherlock at the beginning (when he orders him to give him his phone)

I really loved Mycroft in that episode. But he's always been my fav character so it isn't a surprise.

Last edited by Punch me in the face (January 1, 2017 11:14 pm)

June wrote:

I'm new here but after this episode I just HAD to find a discussion Forum to talk about it.
I'm not sure if it was the fault of the leaking stream I was watching it on but the episode seemed weird somehow. I'll have to rewatch as I probably have missed some details and there were so many...anyway, mary's death didn't completely convince me, the repitition of the phrase "IF I'm dead..." and the resamblance to Sherlock's fake death...
Then the "visions" Sherlock seemed to be having...
All in all an episode full of suspense but lacking Sherlock and John.
Sorry for my bad englisch, it's even worse after this disturbing episode.

Hi and welcome!
The visions didn't sit right with me too. It looked like he had a previous experience with the Thatcher table. I already suspected the father a weird psychiatrist of sorts  :D

SusiGo wrote:

No tears here. It all felt very surreal to me. Will have to watch it again. 

So just this: too much Mary. Not enough John. John is next to non-existent, no good scenes with Sherlock, no warmth between them. If I had to cry, then about this. 

My thoughts exactly.
Not even warmth between John and the baby. I didn't even understand his attraction to the flower power girl. This John was a strange one to me.
 

Vhanja wrote:

I thought the first half of the episode was really confusing.

THAT.

Vhanja wrote:

Swanpride wrote:

Bus stop lady is easily the worst addition they ever did to the show, because of the way they portrayed her as "targeting" John...it takes too much responsibility away from him, as if he wasn't a guy who was getting around beforehand.

Plus, what kind of woman flirts with a guy who wears a wedding ring?

I don't see it like that. He was fully aware of what he was doing and what his responsibilities was - even to the point of trying to end it with her before it even started.

I kind of liked the addition. It added something new to John's character. Just like with Sherlock - not everything he did is something I can defend. Same with John - I can't defend being unfaithful with your wife. But I LOVE that they go to those places, it makes the characters SO much more interesting.

I agree. It adds more depth to the characters. Makes them more fallable, flawed and...as a result, realistic.

What kind of a woman would flirt with a guy with a wedding ring? Actually, plenty of women would. Wedding rings mean nothing, affairs happen all the time.

Swanpride wrote:

Bus stop lady is easily the worst addition they ever did to the show, because of the way they portrayed her as "targeting" John...it takes too much responsibility away from him, as if he wasn't a guy who was getting around beforehand.

Plus, what kind of woman flirts with a guy who wears a wedding ring?

People, men and women, flirt with married people all the time.  Some people honestly don't care.  I knew a woman years ago who only "dated" married men!  She said she liked the challenge.    I don't approve and I don't excuse, I'm just saying it's not an usual thing to happen.

June wrote:

I'm new here but after this episode I just HAD to find a discussion Forum to talk about it.
I'm not sure if it was the fault of the leaking stream I was watching it on but the episode seemed weird somehow. I'll have to rewatch as I probably have missed some details and there were so many...anyway, mary's death didn't completely convince me, the repitition of the phrase "IF I'm dead..." and the resamblance to Sherlock's fake death...
Then the "visions" Sherlock seemed to be having...
All in all an episode full of suspense but lacking Sherlock and John.
Sorry for my bad englisch, it's even worse after this disturbing episode.

Welcome to the forum, June!   Your English is great!  I agree with you about the oddness at times - there were points when I was sure things weren't real, and then they seemed like they definitely were.  I think I have been thrown by too much mind palace in the past! 
 

There were sometimes little things happening where I started to fear that it was Mind Palace all over, but I cannot remember what it was.
Anyway, I still cannot say I'm that sad about Mary's death because I just didn't like her that much, altough she was a very interesting character. But John mourning really gave me shivers.

 

tobeornot221b wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

No tears here. It all felt very surreal to me. Will have to watch it again. 

So just this: too much Mary. Not enough John. John is next to non-existent, no good scenes with Sherlock, no warmth between them. If I had to cry, then about this. 

My thoughts exactly.
Not even warmth between John and the baby. I didn't even understand his attraction to the flower power girl. This John was a strange one to me.
 

 
Thank you, exactly how I feel. U'm sorry, but this was nothing but an episode of Marywhitewashing for me. Think it over, we got everything lacking in HLV: Pretty styling to begin with, great friendship with Sherlock, Warstan, a good background, the true name, the sacrifice in dying, the sorry for the shooting...sorry, but is this still about Sherlock Holmes and John Watson? What else is there than to show Sherlock vowing and John angry?