BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

besleybean · August 27, 2016 11:32 am

Although here's another point: how about Mary joining the boys on their adventures?
I don't think that's been done, has it?

SolarSystem · August 27, 2016 11:50 am

Susi, I agree that replacing John with a woman wouldn't be groundbreaking. But if that woman where Mary it would be quite different to changing John Watson into a Joan Watson as has been done in "Elementary". After all, John Watson would be out of the picture then. We'd have a Sherlock Holmes without a John Watson. That's what I meant.

As for the fall in TRF, okay, I see your point, Susi. Within the universe of Sherlock Holmes, that certainly was groundbreaking. But I thought we were talking about a broader context, as in "writing tv history". And within the universe of television shows, I'd say the fall and the impact it had is certainly up there in the top ten or even top five, but as far as cliffhangers go, I wouldn't call it groundbreaking. But I can see why other people would call it that.

Liberty · August 27, 2016 11:57 am

And the "suicide" was resolved within the episode. He's alive at the end. What I remember being talked about was not why he killed himself, or anything about suicide, but how he survived.

besleybean · August 27, 2016 12:02 pm

Which personally drove me mad...I just wanted The Reunion!

SolarSystem · August 27, 2016 12:03 pm

That's true, Liberty. And I suppose the fact that the audience had to wait for two years for the next episode - and the fandom had two years time to speculate and theorize - helped in giving it that groundbreaking feel. In pretty much every other tv show you get a cliffhanger, you wait for three or four or five months, and then you get new episodes. The long hiatus makes BBC Sherlock pretty special, as well.

Last edited by SolarSystem (August 27, 2016 12:04 pm)

besleybean · August 27, 2016 12:13 pm

And how frustrating that people in the real world just don't feel our angst!

SusiGo · August 27, 2016 12:40 pm

I am still of the opinion that groundbreaking and making history would have to be something inherently positive or progressive. And I do not see anything of that in the Mary scenario. What would be the gain? The writers once said they wanted to fix something that did not seem right in Canon. I cannot imagine them reading ACD and saying, oh, well, Holmes should have lived/worked with Mrs Watson instead of the good doctor, so let's do that. Of course only after she has been revealed as an assassin and shot him.

besleybean · August 27, 2016 1:30 pm

But updating the token wife of Mary, may be ground breaking...I mean I know they have already done it...with the things you mentioned, for example.
But should she sit at home while the boys go out on their adventures?
This was definitely alluded to in TAB.

Schmiezi · August 27, 2016 2:52 pm

There will be no Sherlock without John Watson.

besleybean · August 27, 2016 2:54 pm

True and that is a concern.
Though my last post referred to Mary joining them, not replacing John.

Vhanja · August 27, 2016 2:59 pm

I think John Watson leaving for whatever reason might be the nail in the coffin for me when it comes to enjoying the show. You need them both.

Having Mary join them would be a huge let-down for me. I don't think that will happen, haven't Moffat said it's a show about the boys and their friendship and adventures? Not a gang show?

besleybean · August 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Let's hope we can take them at their word.

Liberty · August 27, 2016 4:44 pm

I don't think she could really join them on their adventures, but it's possible that she could play some role (as sometimes Molly, Lestrade, etc. do). She does have her own area of expertise. (If this happened, I suspect it would be temporary, before she's killed off or whatever).

(Not that I think that's groundbreaking).

Last edited by Liberty (August 27, 2016 4:45 pm)

Vhanja · August 27, 2016 4:53 pm

To be honest, I won't be surprised if the "groundbreaking" thing isn't really that big after all. Nothing bad against Amanda or the Sherlock team at all, but I just feel in general that any media (movie/game/tv-series) tend to hype itself up quite a lot, creating expectations so high they can never be fulfilled.

SusiGo · August 27, 2016 4:57 pm

Well, in this case the hype came definitely from Amanda herself. Most media did not discuss it at all.

besleybean · August 27, 2016 5:00 pm

I receive Google Alerts for both Benedict and Martin.
There are Sherlock stories on there all the time: always sensationalist and I generally hope they are not true. They are usually of the: 'S 5 last series, Sherlock to die' ilk.

Vhanja · August 27, 2016 5:27 pm

Yeah, and the rest of the team have talked at length about how dark this season is. Which I don't doubt is true. But the more they talk like that, they higher (or darker?) the expectations build, and in the end, nothing they make will be able to match what they have built in our heads.

Last edited by Vhanja (August 27, 2016 5:28 pm)

Schmiezi · August 27, 2016 5:35 pm

Vhanja wrote:
Yeah, and the rest of the team have talked at length about how dark this season is. Which I don't doubt is true. But the more they talk like that, they higher (or darker?) the expectations build, and in the end, nothing they make will be able to match what they have built in our heads.

I agree. Our heads can come up with incredibly dark stuff.

SusiGo · September 5, 2016 7:03 am

I found a nice quote from The Sign of Four:

"The Agra treasure, which never brought anything but a curse yet upon the man who owned it."

Does not exactly bode well for the man who "owns" A.G.R.A.

nakahara · September 5, 2016 7:23 am

SusiGo wrote:
I found a nice quote from The Sign of Four:

"The Agra treasure, which never brought anything but a curse yet upon the man who owned it."

Does not exactly bode well for the man who "owns" A.G.R.A.

Very good point!