Mods Note:  Trying to chose my words as carefully and gently as I can.

The tone in this thread continues to be far too harsh in my opinion.  We need to make sure we are discussing the show and not each other.  We need to make our discussion of the show as polite as possible and avoid name calling and broad generalizations.  I believe that if you need to discuss something directly with another member, a pm is honestly best. 

I also know that some consider the Johnlock debate to be settle because of things the creators have said.  But part of the fun of ANY fandom to me is that few things are rarely completely settled.  Hell, the original Star Wars came out 40 years ago and people still debate things about it!

First and foremost we are here to have FUN!  And most of the time we do.  I know this is a topic that inspires deeply held emotions, but we need to try stay calm and share opinions. 

Thank you.

Thank you for the glitter, Nakahara, and thank you for your post, tonnaree. :-) You are both right. Let's have fun again.

I'd like to hear people's platonic interpretations of this part of the script of HLV:

MAGNUSSEN: Very hard to find a pressure point on you, Mr Holmes.
SHERLOCK: Mm. (John turns and walks towards the wall.)
MAGNUSSEN: The drugs thing I never believed for a moment. (John continues walking closer to the wall, staring at the footage with his mouth open.)
MAGNUSSEN: Anyway, you wouldn’t care if it was exposed, would you?
(Sherlock tilts his head, quirks his mouth and shrugs.)
MAGNUSSEN (looking at the screen): But look how you care about John Watson.

Why would Sherlock care if it was "exposed" how much he cares about John? Moriarty already knows John is the 'heart' to burn out of him, and by extension, that means most of the criminal underworld knows. So I find it difficult to read this as Sherlock worrying strictly about a matter of John's safety, because that ship has already sailed (so to speak). What's left to expose, then?

Last edited by GimmeCat (August 26, 2016 3:03 pm)

(Sigh).
Again: nobody has ever said Sherlock doesn't care about John.
He loves him more than anybody on this planet.
But he's not in love with him, he doesn't want a relationship with him.
It IS a bromance.
The best friendship in fiction.
I like fun too, but for me it doesn't have to involve glitter.
Incidentally I seem to have missed the name calling: what names were people called?
 

Wouldn't scare him into submission, would scare him into action.
Wasn't CAM planning to frame the boys?

No, for me the leverage was Sherlock(and John?) coming after him...he knew Sherlock would make a deal with him.

I  think Magnussen is indeed talking about Sherlock loving John which makes him weak and vulnerable in Magnussen's eyes. Sherlock does not care about his drug issues coming to light. Quite the contrary. But his love for John endangers them both, as shown by Moriarty before.

Yes I just think it makes him vulnerable, because he'll do anything for John.
But he doesn't love like we do.
CAM himself refers to John as Sherlock's friend... the clue's in the title.

GimmeCat wrote:

I'd like to hear people's platonic interpretations of this part of the script of HLV:

MAGNUSSEN: Very hard to find a pressure point on you, Mr Holmes.
SHERLOCK: Mm. (John turns and walks towards the wall.)
MAGNUSSEN: The drugs thing I never believed for a moment. (John continues walking closer to the wall, staring at the footage with his mouth open.)
MAGNUSSEN: Anyway, you wouldn’t care if it was exposed, would you?
(Sherlock tilts his head, quirks his mouth and shrugs.)
MAGNUSSEN (looking at the screen): But look how you care about John Watson.

Why would Sherlock care if it was "exposed" how much he cares about John? Moriarty already knows John is the 'heart' to burn out of him, and by extension, that means most of the criminal underworld knows. So I find it difficult to read this as Sherlock worrying strictly about a matter of John's safety, because that ship has already sailed (so to speak). What's left to expose, then?

Magnussen doesn't say anything about Sherlock's relationship with John being exposed.    It's the drugs he's talking about there - he's suggesting that Sherlock would not be bothered if Magnussen printed a story about him using drugs, so he couldn't have used that as blackmail.  (Even though Sherlock had supposedly tried to push that as a pressure point to trick Magnussen - that was the point of being "on a case" at the beginning). 

Now with John, Magnussen isn't talking about exposing anything.  That's clear from him putting John in the bonfire - he wasn't thinking about threatening to print something but about endangering John's life.  Except he doesn't need to, because he has Mary, the next person in the chain, and can threaten to kill her instead. 

Now we know Sherlock is happy for people to know how much he cares for John.  He chooses to announce his love publicly, at the wedding.   We also know that he's not at all bothered about possible misinterpretations of their relationship - he doesn't bother to correct people who suspect they are a couple, he's not bothered by "bachelor John Watson" in the press and so on.   (In fact, at that time, he willingly allows all sorts of bad stuff to be printed about him, to help the case).    So I don't see how Magnussen could ever have blackmailed Sherlock by threatening to print a Johnlock story.  Sherlock would just have ignored it. 

But anyway, that's not what he's saying - it's the drugs he's talking about exposing, the "fake" pressure point.  Then he's talking about exploiting the fact that Sherlock cares for John - that that's his real pressure point.
 

GimmeCat wrote:

I'd like to hear people's platonic interpretations of this part of the script of HLV:

MAGNUSSEN: Very hard to find a pressure point on you, Mr Holmes.
SHERLOCK: Mm. (John turns and walks towards the wall.)
MAGNUSSEN: The drugs thing I never believed for a moment. (John continues walking closer to the wall, staring at the footage with his mouth open.)
MAGNUSSEN: Anyway, you wouldn’t care if it was exposed, would you?
(Sherlock tilts his head, quirks his mouth and shrugs.)
MAGNUSSEN (looking at the screen): But look how you care about John Watson.

Why would Sherlock care if it was "exposed" how much he cares about John? Moriarty already knows John is the 'heart' to burn out of him, and by extension, that means most of the criminal underworld knows. So I find it difficult to read this as Sherlock worrying strictly about a matter of John's safety, because that ship has already sailed (so to speak). What's left to expose, then?

The other thing-- Magnussen doesn't believe Sherlock's drugs ruse-- though everyone else believes Sherlock's a junkie! Is this a mistake in the writing-- because it becomes a major issue in TAB-- or is Magnussen correct? Or,  does this actually mean that he's wrong--fallible? If he's fallible, could he have given John the wrong pressure point-- Mary, when it should have been Sherlock?  Hmmmm.....

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (August 26, 2016 5:08 pm)