BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Why did they bring the gun to Appledore?

Kittyhawk · May 23, 2015 6:27 pm

Liberty wrote:
....In the long run, even if Magnussen was exposed, I doubt it would stop him. ....

Is that a reply to something I wrote? Because I was not thinking about publicly "exposing" Magnussen. I was thinking about dropping a word in the right ear - preferably one connected to hands holding a sniper rifle... (or to a brain that knows how to build a car bomb, make a helicopter crash - you get the picture)

nakahara · August 12, 2016 7:30 am

Sherlock is reaching for the gun in John´s pocket and John lets him have it.
He knows ful well Sherlock only needs the gun for one purpose....
...and yet he doesn´t prevent it.
Did he deliberately let Sherlock to sacrifice himself for his own family?

besleybean · August 12, 2016 8:19 am

He possibly thought Sherlock was going to threaten, not murder.

Liberty · August 12, 2016 8:39 am

He didn't have much time to think, and yes, it's possible that he just didn't believe that Sherlock would do it. He also tends to trust Sherlock and wouldn't have started an argument about it there. But yes, also possible that he let Sherlock go ahead and do it. I do feel there's a little bit of lack of gratitude to Sherlock in HLV, from both John and Mary. But then, I felt a lot of S3 was Sherlock sacrificing himself for others, one way or another.

besleybean · August 12, 2016 8:42 am

That's why I'm kind of hoping Mary is going to say 'thank you' somehow...

Schmiezi · August 14, 2016 5:07 pm

nakahara wrote:

Sherlock is reaching for the gun in John´s pocket and John lets him have it.
He knows ful well Sherlock only needs the gun for one purpose....
...and yet he doesn´t prevent it.
Did he deliberately let Sherlock to sacrifice himself for his own family?

Maybe John is simply used to feel Sherlock's hand there. Who knows what happened at Baker Street during the months before Christmas... ;-)

What was John thinking about bringing his gun, I wonder. I mean, what did Sherlock tell him? "We'll spend Christmas with my parents. You will reunite with Mary. Bring your gun."

And John just shrugs and thinks, "Okay."

Last edited by Schmiezi (August 14, 2016 5:08 pm)

besleybean · August 14, 2016 5:09 pm

We know Sherlock didn't do that, because he asks John if he did bring the gun.

Schmiezi · August 15, 2016 9:11 am

So before coming, John thought, "Oh, will spend Christmas with Sherlock's family and my wife. Let's bring a gun."?

SusiGo · August 15, 2016 9:16 am

The whole gun thing is one of the reasons why some others and I came up with EMP/EDT (extended mind palace/dream theory). This is one of the many bizarre elements in the second half of HLV that makes me think it might not have been real at all.

Schmiezi · August 15, 2016 9:19 am

True. And the list of things that don't make sense is long.

SusiGo · August 15, 2016 9:42 am

Very long. And the one with gun in particular makes no sense because they explicitly showed Magnussen's men searching the flat and Sherlock and John for weapons. So bringing a gun full well knowing that they would be searched and then not having them searched so Sherlock can shoot Magnussen – not very plausible.
Actually this is unbelievable twice over - bringing the gun at all AND them not being searched after having shown how thorough CAM's men are.

Liberty · August 15, 2016 10:13 am

Very true. I suppose it's possible that Magnussen was reassured by the flat search. And I'm trying to think if he would know about John's gun - probably not? He thought he was dealing with Sherlock who doesn't usually work by shooting people.

Hopefully S4 will make some things clearer.

nakahara · August 15, 2016 12:42 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
Maybe John is simply used to feel Sherlock's hand there. Who knows what happened at Baker Street during the months before Christmas... ;-)

Nice thought!

Schmiezi wrote:
What was John thinking about bringing his gun, I wonder. I mean, what did Sherlock tell him? "We'll spend Christmas with my parents. You will reunite with Mary. Bring your gun."

And John just shrugs and thinks, "Okay."

Magnussen not searching John for guns I can kinda understand. Maybe he was too self-assured, too caught up in his own hubris, that he didn´t care anymore in false belief that they wouldn´t dare to touch him.

But John bringing a gun to a Christmas party... that´s very bizarre indeed. Why would he do that?

besleybean · August 15, 2016 1:01 pm

(Shrugs) Dunno...

Liberty · August 15, 2016 2:40 pm

Well, one possible explanation (although I don't really like it) is that Sherlock asked him to bring it because he was planning to kill Magnussen. Or perhaps just threaten him. I don't imagine he told John that, but he could have asked him to bring it along (it's suggested that he did).

Or perhaps John tends to take it with him when he can (although he didn't take it to the drug den). I'm not actually sure if Mary knows about the gun - although surely she does?

Last edited by Liberty (August 15, 2016 2:42 pm)

kgreen20 · August 15, 2016 2:51 pm

"Did you bring your gun as I suggested?"

"Why would I bring my gun to your parents' house for Christmas dinner?!"

"Is it in your coat?"

"Yes!"

"Off we go, then."

"Where are we going?"

"Appledore."

We have our answer in their dialogue on the show. John brought his gun at Sherlock's request. However, I'm guessing that Sherlock didn't tell him why he wanted the gun.

Last edited by kgreen20 (August 15, 2016 2:52 pm)

SusiGo · August 15, 2016 2:53 pm

Well, the strange thing is that Sherlock seems genuinely shocked at Magnussen's mind palace reveal. He honestly expected to make a bargain, that is at least how I understand it. Taking a gun for bargaining in a house full of professional security seems not very reasonable.

nakahara · August 15, 2016 7:39 pm

It´s as if he was deliberately looking for trouble, yes...

GimmeCat · August 16, 2016 6:42 am

Which, to complete the circle, doesn't make sense. As problematic as it is, I lean towards EDT, because the alternative seems to be "bad writing" and I'm not prepared to accept that until we see how much S4 explains.

Liberty · August 16, 2016 7:19 am

Thank goodness we don't have long to go now!

The whole thing is rather strange, as people have pointed out before. For instance, Mrs Holmes seems to be implying that Sherlock has just come out of hospital, which would mean he'd been in for months. But he seems fully recovered - no convalescence at home needed.

There are things about TSOT (and other episodes) that have always bothered me, and that I have just accepted as "that's the way they write" or "that's how this universe works", but now really wondering if there are going to be explanations. If they were planning mind palace/dream sequence all along, though, I have very mixed feelings about that.