BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

Liberty · August 12, 2016 8:35 am

You know, I never thought I would say this (I was so keen to have Mary dispatched as soon as possible), but I'm actually really looking forward to see what they show us about Mary. I feel her past needs some explanation, and I'm so glad that it looks like we're going to get it, and I suppose I have been caught up in Amanda being at SDCC and talking about her. I still want Sherlock and John back together at 221B of course, but I think that will happen anyway.

besleybean · August 12, 2016 8:36 am

Yes and I just want her to go out on a positive note.

Schmiezi · August 12, 2016 8:56 am

Yes and I just want her to go out on a negative note. ;-)

besleybean · August 12, 2016 9:10 am

Why?

Schmiezi · August 12, 2016 9:33 am

Because I think that story-wie it would be much more exciting. To me, she would make a great baddie.

Mothonthemantel · August 12, 2016 9:55 am

I will be surprised if we get more than 10 minutes of Mary in the whole of S04 .
I think her story is as completed as it will get.

besleybean · August 12, 2016 9:57 am

Well, if she does get bumped off...as long as we know why.

kgreen20 · August 12, 2016 5:08 pm

I don't want her going out as a baddie; she doesn't come across as a baddie anyway, but rather as a deeply flawed, possibly deeply damaged woman. I do want her going out, though, and I want John back with Sherlock.

RavenMorganLeigh · August 12, 2016 6:12 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
That sounds like she only had two options: making John lose Sherlock or making John lose her and the baby.

I deeply disagree with that. She also had the Option to trust Sherlock to help her. AND she could have believed that John's love for her was deep enough to forgive her the past. Apparently she dismissed that option.

Agreed. I mean, for crying out loud-- Sherlock planned her wedding! Accepted her as John's partner. She couldn't have given him the benefit of the doubt? She didn't know her own husband well enough to know how badly he takes being lied to?

besleybean · August 12, 2016 6:14 pm

Oh I think she appreciated she was lying, but she felt it was for the right reasons.

SusiGo · August 12, 2016 6:32 pm

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:
Schmiezi wrote:
That sounds like she only had two options: making John lose Sherlock or making John lose her and the baby.

I deeply disagree with that. She also had the Option to trust Sherlock to help her. AND she could have believed that John's love for her was deep enough to forgive her the past. Apparently she dismissed that option.
Agreed. I mean, for crying out loud-- Sherlock planned her wedding! Accepted her as John's partner. She couldn't have given him the benefit of the doubt? She didn't know her own husband well enough to know how badly he takes being lied to?

This! I simply cannot accept that shooting Sherlock could have been an acceptable option.

besleybean · August 12, 2016 6:33 pm

But again, we are outraged on his behalf.
To me, he seems to have forgiven Mary and moved on.

Liberty · August 12, 2016 7:06 pm

It seems more that she over-estimated how badly John would take being lied to.

No, shooting Sherlock isn't acceptable, but without further information, I don't feel I can agree with some of the ideas here about Mary's motivations. I just don't think we know for sure ... and what we have to go on is what we see her do, and what Sherlock interprets. I'm not wild about Sherlock's semi-explanation, but I think that stands until we see more in S4 (hopefully).

RavenMorganLeigh · August 12, 2016 7:28 pm

Liberty wrote:
It seems more that she over-estimated how badly John would take being lied to.

No, shooting Sherlock isn't acceptable, but without further information, I don't feel I can agree with some of the ideas here about Mary's motivations. I just don't think we know for sure ... and what we have to go on is what we see her do, and what Sherlock interprets. I'm not wild about Sherlock's semi-explanation, but I think that stands until we see more in S4 (hopefully).

I'm thinking that Sherlock made his ridiculous explanation because he was in a corner. Too weak and ill to protect John or investigate Mary properly, she's standing in his apartment with a loaded gun, (she'd come prepared to shoot him again) and John's Not Thinking. As for "being okay with Mary" later, well, what was Sherlock supposed to do? John chose Mary. Sad, but there it is. (Though, I'm still holding out hope that Sherlock and John are in cahoots together in a plot to take Mary down!)

besleybean · August 12, 2016 7:30 pm

I really can't see the latter happening.
Why would they want to?
Who is she a threat to?

RavenMorganLeigh · August 12, 2016 7:57 pm

besleybean wrote:
I really can't see the latter happening.
Why would they want to?
Who is she a threat to?

Well ,for one-- her own child. Remember, she climbed a building while pregnant? Also, just because Magnussen is dead, does anyone really believe that all threats to Mary were eliminated? Those who want her dead are still out there. It's just that now, (chickens coming home to roost) there may be collateral damage, anyone close to her: the baby, John, Sherlock (again) etc,.

Mary's very existence and proximity to those she "loves" is a threat, because she's a target for retribution from the people she hurt in the past, and there are probably several governments that would also like to get their hands on her to send her to prison.

Mothonthemantel · August 12, 2016 8:03 pm

I do not know if anything revealed about Mary would make me accept shooting Sherlock as necessary.
She says she will kill him and then she does Even the doctors are shocked when Sherlock recovers.
I think she shot Sherlock in order to escape the scene and to delay John and she must of accepted the huge possibility that Sherlock would die and not cared.
Once Mary is discovered I think she tells the truth and that John would not love her if he knew her for real.
I sort of feel sad for Mary that John burned the memory stick because it's a I do not want to know you truly . So just keep on pretending
Mary is a mystery with no beginning middle and probably no conclusive end. I don't even see a character arc. She wasn't even used to kill Johnlock for good which would have been so easy to do and the baby seems to be a plot device to justify the reunion so they can drag out the melodrama .
In short . What the heck was the point of Mary apart from allowing Sherlock to die and then take the fall so John could have his unhappy hetero ever after.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

besleybean · August 12, 2016 8:06 pm

Possibly we should wait until next season.
But the point is, Canon Mary is the love of John's life and I see no difference with BBC Sherlock.

Schmiezi · August 12, 2016 8:14 pm

besleybean wrote:
Possibly we should wait until next season.
But the point is, Canon Mary is the love of John's life and I see no difference with BBC Sherlock.

Where in canon do you see the life of his life stuff? Are there quotes?

SusiGo · August 12, 2016 8:19 pm

Wait until next season and stop posting until January? Not an option for me.

As for Canon - the funny thing is that ACD was not interested in writing a love story for Watson. His dismissive treatment of Mary after Sign of Four is notorious. We do not get to see any love between Watson and his wife because his wife is nearly absent from the stories after the marriage. Before she is gone altogether.