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August 8, 2016 12:29 pm  #4281


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Because there has never been any suggestion that she would harm John.


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August 8, 2016 1:21 pm  #4282


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

@ Nakahara, Mycroft said he needed Sherlock for the legwork, and Mary to "keep an eye on things".  (Could possibly be a subconscious hint about Mary's role in real life - we'll see).

About the CIA guy, it doesn't really matter if what he's doing is legal or not, what Sherlock was going was torturing him to the extent of risking serious injury, disablement or death, and I can't approve of that in real life.  Sherlock was angry, but not under threat, and it doesn't justify it to me - I'm not talking legally, but morally.   But that's real life.  It's not a problem for me accepting what he does in the fictional show. 

Again, I'm not saying that John would do anything Sherlock tells him.  Just that they work as a team and trust each other.  Why shouldn't John consider Sherlock's judgment?  I don't even think Sherlock tells him to stay with Mary.  He just shows him what his assessment of her is, and so on, and then apparently leaves John to it.  (Although we don't know what happened off screen, but I don't see anything to tell me that Sherlock was ordering John to do stay with Mary).

 

 

August 8, 2016 2:09 pm  #4283


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Mary didn't help solve the case in TAB as I see it Mary was the case. The big reveal at the end and Sherlocks "Lady Carmichael! " parallels  the moment "Lady Smallwood" in the alternative timeline.!
Mary is the Moriarty bride under the last veil in TAB  no question.
At that point Lady Carmichael is Lady Smallwood - which is why she is piloting the plane.
So in TABs alternative timeline  Sherlock aligns Mary with Moriarty and we know what happens to him. TAB hints John choosing Sherlock and shortarse going in the water.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (August 8, 2016 2:11 pm)


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

August 8, 2016 2:11 pm  #4284


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I didn't get that about Mary being under the veil at all...


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 8, 2016 2:22 pm  #4285


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

TAB is the alternative story so far of Sherlock 1 - 3?

John and Sherlock as usual - the first bride shoots up London causing terror and scaring Lestrade leaving YOU/IOU messages then dies /fakes it or slips away - Moriarty.
The case from Mycroft with the woman - Lady Carmichael who is in with Moriarty all along is Irenes.
But as all 9 episodes are squished into 1 special Tab tells S03 Mary all along , so Mary's story in TAB is told from the start from Sherlocks pov.  It's very revealing.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

August 8, 2016 2:30 pm  #4286


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

And a shooting bride under a veil is definitely a nod to Sherlock's MP in HLV. 


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"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

August 8, 2016 2:41 pm  #4287


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Yes. And all the villains on the show so far have really been Moriarty under a veil anyway.
Except H.O.U.N.D. but  maybe a CATS case will 》Come All The Same .


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

August 8, 2016 3:40 pm  #4288


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Yes I did assume they were all Moriarty and indeed Mary could have been there.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 8, 2016 5:23 pm  #4289


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

There are also parallels to Sherlock himself, I think ... Emilia fakes her death in a similar way - not the shooting, which is obviously Moriarty, but the collaborating with the pathologist, using another body AND using her real body.   Irene also did something similar, but without the real body.   The terminal illness is probably most like Jeff Hope. 

And until we know exactly what was mind palace and what wasn't (still not entirely confirmed for TAB), it's not clear if the case existed and Sherlock solved it, or if he made it up entirely from bits of his subconscious.

 

August 8, 2016 5:56 pm  #4290


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

But the two cases we end TAB with unexplained  also end S03 in the alternative timeline.Sherlocks shooting and the miss me message.Sir Edwins body and Sherlocks mistakes leading to death ends TAB really  as the past is done. Note Sir Edwin was stabbed exactly where Sherlock was shot .
So then the Victorian era moves to the modern which parallels the present in the show. They are not real just the timeline moved up in Sherlocks head.The modern scenes mix with past to show Sherlocks thoughts on Mary and how he decided as he did.
I interpret them something like he could not trust MI6 info from Mycroft because Mary had already accessed  it , he could not dig up info on Mary with Mycroft and Lestrade because it was all so long ago and deeply buried , the grave was the only clue he had on Mary Morstan and a dead end , Mary might take an angry John away, and besides that would be like digging his own grave anyway.
The scene with Moriarty - reminds Sherlock that he does not really care about the facts of the case anyway, he agreed with the abused women's killings , and that this case has something to do with sex and emotions - and so ultimately he has to solve Mary's case on emotions and not as a detective.
- a la TRF leap of faith ending.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (August 8, 2016 6:38 pm)


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

August 8, 2016 5:57 pm  #4291


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Wow, you read so much more into this than I did!


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 8, 2016 6:00 pm  #4292


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Great interpretation, Moth. Thank you for posting it here. :-)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

August 8, 2016 6:02 pm  #4293


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

An episode inside Sherlocks head with his pov of everything though!?♡♤


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

August 8, 2016 6:05 pm  #4294


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Yes it was pretty neat and I'm guessing we'll get more next time.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 8, 2016 6:16 pm  #4295


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Another thing about Mary in TAB and the women all being in on it is that we know Mary knew about Janine and maybe Mary also knew about Lady Smallwood because as Mycrofts boss that might make Lady Smallwood  M  in a bond way. So maybe because TAB shows Mary as bored and abandoned and looking for excitement because John has abandoned his post maybe Mary decided to kill CAM to solve the problems for all three. Additionally Smallwood may have gone to Baker St looking for Mary but found Sherlock instead which is LOL . But does explain the final puzzle of TAB.
 

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (August 8, 2016 6:17 pm)


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

August 8, 2016 6:50 pm  #4296


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I kind of like that theory, Moth.   (Except for making Mary a bit too important - I still need Sherlock to be the focus, along with John).  I'm really curious about Mary in S4 - couldn't wait to get rid of her after S3, and now I'm actually quite excited now I'm convinced we're going to find out more and have some things explained!

 

August 10, 2016 9:18 am  #4297


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Very good meta explaining why Mary didn´t shoot Sherlock into the head no performed "surgery" on him, but injured him the way she did:

http://tetragon4.tumblr.com/post/144219008945/the-problem-with-sherlocks-deductions-i


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

August 10, 2016 12:56 pm  #4298


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Yes very good meta and very much what I think . Thanks for posting. It also joins very nicely with the meta and screenshots on why Magnussen phoned the ambulance .
Makes much more sense than Sherlocks mixed messages.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

August 10, 2016 1:03 pm  #4299


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I always took the 'mixed messages' to refer to Mary's mixed past and current situation.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

August 10, 2016 1:07 pm  #4300


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I thought he was referring to the she saved me as a description of Mary shooting him¯\_(ツ)_/¯.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

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