nakahara wrote:

Mothonthemantel wrote:

It's a shame people don't discuss TAB more and sort of moved on with #setlock I think.

But maybe they will discuss it if you open thread about it in TAB section. Not all people want to get involved in Johnlock debate so they may overlook it in here...
 

 

Yes you right. Sorry to wander OT. I will maybe put something together on the parallel the story so far and TAB thread. I thought it was obvious.

I think there are some connections - there's the Reichenbach painting in Mycroft's room, for instance. 

I agree that Moriarty is sexually aggressive toward Sherlock in his mind palace.  But I think the real Moriarty is a little bit in real life too.  (And in fact, was first introduced to us by making an advance towards Sherlock).  I can understand why people see that as Sherlock being gay and afraid of his own sexuality, but it's kind of at odds with other things we're shown.  It looks more like Sherlock being sexually threatened ... there was something similar in the deleted scene with Magnussen too.   He also has sexual approaches from women too, and I think it's interesting - it's an unusual way to show a male star, I think. 

Yep, Irene knew this, too.

Yes, to me it sems as if Sherlock becomes more uncomfortable with Irene's advances than he does with Moriarty. Which can be interpreted either way, really. In my head canon, he became affected by her sexually against his own will and wishes, which is part of why he feels both fascinated and intimidated by her. She rocked with the very foundation of his "fly in the ointment"-attitude.

Yeah, so I don't think that what Irene and Moriarty is doing is really about sex, it's more about power and power play. (Although I've always wondered what Irene would have done if Sherlock actually had
said yes to "dinner").

(And Moriarty seemed like a slightly exaggerated verison of himself in TAB/Sherlock's mind, which I also find interesting).

Last edited by Vhanja (August 3, 2016 7:03 pm)

No, I don't think he's bothered at that point (he thinks it's Jim from IT), and I don't think it's particularly predatory then, but I do think there is something sexual about Moriarty's approach to him later.  I agree about him using people in TAB, as he does in his mind palace in HLV.   But I think there's also some information about the people themselves there too - certainly some information about how Sherlock sees them. 

And yes, I agree, he's essentially in disguise as Molly's gay boyfriend from IT when they meet, and I agree about him using it as power play.   He has the same sexual approach to the female guard as he does to Sherlock, so that aspect isn't necessarily a sign of his orientation.  I tend to headcanon him as gay, I think because of his obsession with Sherlock.  But it actually wouldn't surprise me if he was celibate.   I haven't really thought that far about what he actually does, strangely enough. 

Last edited by Liberty (August 3, 2016 7:24 pm)

I thought Irene was gay?

Oh, I think she's genuinely attracted to him, regardless of her orientation.  He deduces that, and the phone code also confirms a romantic attraction. 

I do think she's gay, but there's a possibility she isn't.  She says she is, and she apparently has a female partner.   But her whole MO is knowing what people like.   I don't know if it's relevant, but Sherlock smiles a little at the palace when he hears that the young royal is female.  And we don't know how much of the conversation at Battersea is "playing the game" and manipulating, or whether her words are meant for Sherlock or John.   But apart from titilation (trivial) or making Sherlock feel he's "converted" her (offensive?), there doesn't seem to be a really good reason for her to pretend.   And it may be more about the idea that she wouldn't normally be attracted to him (gay), and he wouldn't normally be attracted to her (repressed and celibate). 

Last edited by Liberty (August 3, 2016 8:22 pm)

It's a while since I watched it, so guessing on timing, but I think she would have changed the code after she met him but before Christmas.

And yes, completely agree with you about the narcissism!  I think it's kind of funny that Sherlock falls for a a female version of his own reflection .  

I love Scandal!  I looked at the show in a whole new way after that episode.   In fact, it was the one which brought me to the fandom, feeling that I had questions and wanted to be able to talk to people about it.  My big question was "How could Sherlock have misidentified Irene's body?"  and the answer I came to was that he didn't.  She'd manipulated him into colluding with her.  And yes, I think that was a big clue for the future.  In a way, Sherlock uses Molly's interest in him, the way Irene uses his, to have her collude in faking the death, and the false body and so on. It's a really different view of John and Sherlock's relatinship too.  There's so much in that episode, never mind the actual mystery story.

Anyway, I thought I'd stick this here - confirmation that Sherlock isn't gay (or at least Mark says he isn't, but I know the answer will be that he's lying!):

http://skulls-and-tea.tumblr.com/post/87121857971/the-obsession-particularly-online-with-the

The whole interview has more on his views on representation too, which fit with what was said at SDCC.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx0i01aSU21qdojd4o4_1280.jpg