Shani wrote:

I'm sorry if I've derailed this conversation in any way. And I probably shouldn't have posted that rant from tumblr either - it was just to highlight how angry and how nasty some of the debate has got. And to show that there are a lot of people who take TJLC far more seriously than mere fun. As you say, nakahara, it wasn't from a hater's blog - it was a gut reaction from a fan who thinks they have been promised Johnlock in the show. But some of that strength of passion has definitely spilled over into interactions with Sue Vertue and Mark Gatiss, and I am worried about what will happen next year if Johnlockers don't see what they want in Series 4. But I will leave it there and not discuss it any further.

It´s all fine.
 

nakahara wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

nakahara wrote:

What I find more disturbing in that interview is Benedict´s claim that Sherlock is only John´s friend out of neccessity and that there´s nothing sentimental behind it...

So - he sacrificed his life twice and his freedom once to save the friendship with a man he only needs as a tool, to appear more "human"?
 

Yes, I noticed this as well, and it worries me a bit. It is at odds with everything we've seen in the show and everything the cast and crew have always stated - that Sherlock cares for John as a friend.

As for Irene, I'm not sure where you get "cured for sociopathy" from? I thought it was clear that this was just a facade Sherlock tried to keep, and that it's John's friendship that has first and foremost humanised him.

It´s in odds not only with creator´s claims about their friendship but also with the whole history of Sherlockian adaptations and the spirit of the original stories. If one thing is constant in these stories, the foundation on which the whole "building" stands, it´s friendship / close relationship between Sherlock Holmes and John Watson. I hope they are not trying to be "groundbreaking" by taking this one thing away.

"Cure for sociopathy" was just my joke. The above cited ben´s statement makes it seem to me as if Sherlock turned from the slightly amoral, sociopathic individual due to his private life with Irene Adler, as if one was the result of another... but I´m sure that´s not what Benedict really meant, even if it came out of his mouth in this manner.
 

Sorry about the nested quotes, but I wanted to make it clear what I was responding too!

I don't think he's said anything really different to what he said at SDCC, which I don't think anybody really picked up on (or if they did, I missed it!).   I'm not sure if I can find the videos, but it's very similar stuff.   He said something about using relationships for a purpose, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care for people (paraphrasing, sorry).  Obviously, he needs John, he came along at just the right time, they complement each other, make each other better people and so on, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care for him.  And loving John doesn't mean that he can't also find the relationship beneficial, and use him when necessary, particularly to help him relate to other people and function better.. 

I'm sure the relationship between Sherlock and John will continue to be central.  Even if they did introduce a love interest (which is just wild speculation at the moment - I'm not really thinking it will happen, and don't think I want it to), there's no reason for it to change - Irene did not adversely affect their relationship (and the focus has continued to be on their relationship through John's various girlfriends and Mary). 

Here's the videos, I'm think of:
https://youtu.be/s06zGSGdKf4?t=2m9s
https://youtu.be/XUXPMwMQlvg?t=10m59s
Hopefully they should start at the relevant parts.  Very similar to what he says in the Collider interview.
 

Last edited by Liberty (August 3, 2016 9:55 am)

Me too, Besley - I'm not watching the show for a romance, and I think it would maybe humanise him too much.   He still needs to be "different" and his celibacy is one of the things that makes him different.   But as I say, pure speculation and probably unlikely - and even then, it could be something from the past.  Given Redbeard, I'd suspect that the person might be dead.    And even if it was in the present, I'd suspect that they'd die.  I think we've been led to expect one or more people to die in S4 and the hints are strong that it's Mary, but it could be somebody else.

Liberty wrote:

I don't think he's said anything really different to what he said at SDCC, which I don't think anybody really picked up on (or if they did, I missed it!).   I'm not sure if I can find the videos, but it's very similar stuff.   He said something about using relationships for a purpose, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care for people (paraphrasing, sorry).  Obviously, he needs John, he came along at just the right time, they complement each other, make each other better people and so on, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care for him.  And loving John doesn't mean that he can't also find the relationship beneficial, and use him when necessary, particularly to help him relate to other people and function better.. 

I'm sure the relationship between Sherlock and John will continue to be central.  Even if they did introduce a love interest (which is just wild speculation at the moment - I'm not really thinking it will happen, and don't think I want it to), there's no reason for it to change - Irene did not adversely affect their relationship (and the focus has continued to be on their relationship through John's various girlfriends and Mary). 

Here's the videos, I'm think of:
https://youtu.be/s06zGSGdKf4?t=2m9s
https://youtu.be/XUXPMwMQlvg?t=10m59s
Hopefully they should start at the relevant parts.  Very similar to what he says in the Collider interview.
 

Thank you for posting the videos (nuances of such things get lost when you only see them in written form + you are not native speaker on top of it). I think we have nothing to fear then.

Vhanja wrote:

I hope Redbeard wasn't a love interest that died, that would be too cliché.

And I hope that his love interest wasn't a dog! 

Just kidding!

But there's that scene in ASIB which I've sometimes thought about where  he says something like "I've always assumed that love is a dangerous disadvantage.  Thank you for the final proof".   "Final" suggests that he's had previous proof (such as being hurt in love before).   But it could also just mean that it's something he's observed with other people.   I agree that it would be a bit of a cliche. 

Last edited by Liberty (August 3, 2016 5:04 pm)

That scene might have told me a lot about Jim...not sure how much it says about Sherlock.

But is he not deducing about Jim.

I just don't see those parallels...but maybe you know more than me.
Possibly we'll find out in just under 5 months.

Oh TAB is my favourite episode so far.

I don't see the connection either, sorry. "They are right and we are wrong" I always saw as meaning that the women's fight for equal rights is wrong and men suppressing them is wrong. Life as they know it IS under threat, because with women's right's movement, men's life are about to change.

I don't see any connection between "take the case" and Sherlock jumping?

To me, this feels like too much of a leap, I don't see them hiding stuff that way. It's too hidden and there is no obvious connection.