Do you also tell them that some fans don't think that will happen?
'Teach the controversy', as it were! 

Well the holding hands was under rather desperate circumstances and they didn't ask for the candle!

Whisky wrote:

What I find difficult is to name the disappointment.
For me, it's not aimed at the show at all. I don't mind where we are going, I'm going there too until I'm not.
It's not the show itself. It's the way the writers handle things nowadays. I find them interesting, I like the things they do, they are people who have something to say. Except recently, it feels to me like they don't know what to say anymore.
And that is what makes me feel disappointed. Like I have a certain faith in them handling certain topics in a good way. Now I'm doubting if they do. They struggle so much, but why? Fear of fan backlash?
And the lying... what for? To keep things secret? I don't know. If I don't want to know something, I don't go looking for it. Why they have to tell lies to keep things a surprise is beyond me. For the fun of it, yes... I cannot judge that though.
I cannot grasp the concept of making the show ambiguous (in terms of Johnlock) and then not being able to handle the upcoming questions in a confident manner. Assuming the show is ambiguos. Which it must be in some way, if this thread is still going strong.
 

Beautifully put, Whiskey.

Speaking of Mofftiss struggling, I sometimes wonder if there are no other pressures we, the outsiders, do not see. The pressure of their employer, BBC corporation, for example... but I know too little about that to be sure, of course.

I do not think it has anything to do with the BBC. Maybe the writers do not like people figuring out too much. I mentioned this more than once, some people deduced that TAB was going to take place during the five minutes on the plane. Same goes for Johnlock, I suppose. They want people guessing but not too much. Maybe they should not give any hints at all, no tweets, nothing. Because fans have become very clever and Moftiss want to have control over their surprises and rug pulls. Which does not work, regarding the long waits between episodes. 
 

The new Russian Holmes series is another example of Holmes and Watson being unambiguously straight and in relationships with women. 

Thanks for the links, Nakahara.

I think one important thing with this is that we know how the writers say they portray LGBT characters and how they do actually portray them, and it's at odds with what we see in Sherlock.   And in this day and age, on the BBC, it would seem very odd to hide it, to leave everything to subtext and innuendo.  I know Sherlock Holmes is a bit of an exception because he doesn't "do" sex and relationships, so in a way, there's no need to make his orientation explicit.  But John is different, and I think his orientation has been made explicit.

But they have both only been shown with or interested in women.

True, and I'm open to the possibility of a gay man falling for a woman in certain circumstances (I think with Irene, there is a connection which is not really to do with physical attraction, although I personally think that's there as well).   And I still think he's ambiguous, but by adding another woman into the mix, even if it's just fleetingly, kind of sways him in the other direction.  We still haven't seen any attraction to any man.

My view of the character is that he doesn't get romantically/sexually involved with anyone, male or female.   But I understand the writers may have different plans.

nakahara wrote:

Sherlock Holmes in New York.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K3Nwdg9x3w

Holmes has a child with Irene Adler there. There is zero possibility of anyone interpreting that fact other way.

 

Then John having a child with Mary should also give zero possibilities of interpreting it any other way?

I agree. However, we have consistently seen John with women and interested in women, showing no interest in men.(If it walks like a duck...). If he's bi, it's quite closeted and not relevant for the story. Just as BBC Sherlock might be gay, but it's not relevant because he doesn't act on it anyway.

And Mofatt actually made a fairly good point when he saI'd that if Sherlock had been romantically and/or sexually attracted to John, he hadn't wanted him as a room mate to begin with because he wouldn't have wanted that daily distraction.

Last edited by Vhanja (August 2, 2016 6:45 am)