BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Series 4 Setlock (potential spoilers)

Liberty · July 25, 2016 5:37 pm

I'm sorry, then, I moved a discussion over to the Johnlock debate thread and should maybe have left it here. It certainly wasn't because I didn't think relationships should be discussed, but because I didn't want to upset anyone who was invested in Johnlock! In fact, I deleted my reply to Lilythiell, because I don't feel I want to interfere too much with what people believe in, and I understand that we all have our own reasons for believing in things. But maybe I was being a bit sensitive because of that video I watched (see the debate thread), and we probably have thicker skins here on this forum. Anyway, I just wanted to mention in this in case people thought I'd moved the discussion because I didn't think these things should be discussed. I'm more than happy to discuss them!

Vhanja · July 25, 2016 5:39 pm

I'm a Johnlocker myself, so personally I don't mind one bit. However, I can see how it can become slightly annoying for non-lockers if Johnlock keep bleeding into most threads where they aren't really on topic (especially when it's not a serious post about the topic, but just jokes and memes).

(Also, I'm curious as to the source of the "grumpy bi" and "campy gay"-thing. Mark didn't say that neiter at the Comic con panel nor the Nerd panel yesterday?)

Last edited by Vhanja (July 25, 2016 5:40 pm)

SusiGo · July 25, 2016 5:48 pm

He said it at NerdHQ as far as I know. He said "camp(y) gay person" but it was in there. Just like the grumpy bisexual.

Last edited by SusiGo (July 25, 2016 5:51 pm)

SusiGo · July 25, 2016 5:53 pm

Btw, did you see this?

http://guizmop.tumblr.com/post/147945118942/amanda-abbington-and-sue-vertue-about-sherlock-s4

Groundbreaking? Making TV history? Never been done before? I

Last edited by SusiGo (July 25, 2016 5:54 pm)

Liberty · July 25, 2016 5:54 pm

Here you go! https://youtu.be/rPHpq0rrGQI?t=1m35s

Vhanja · July 25, 2016 5:59 pm

Thanks, Liberty! Yes, I remember it now that I see it again, I just didn't take any note of it (except how Moftiss tried to explain how you can have gays/bis in every number of ways, as with any other character).

I'm actually wondering if the groundbreaking thing they're talking about is killing off a baby? Not sure if that has been done before in tv? A named baby of one of the main cast?

Liberty · July 25, 2016 6:01 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Btw, did you see this?

http://guizmop.tumblr.com/post/147945118942/amanda-abbington-and-sue-vertue-about-sherlock-s4

Groundbreaking? Making TV history? Never been done before? I

Ooh, exciting! I think ... I find it difficult to read, but does Amanda say that they've done something again? What was the first thing? I'm also curious about Amanda et al "pulling it off" (no sniggering at the back, please) - it does suggest some sort of trick they're going to play on us. (And it had better not be "the whole thing is mind palace" or something like that!).

One possibility, thinking about the "television history" idea, is that they are going to time a real event to coincide with the broadcast, or vice versa.

mrshouse · July 25, 2016 6:03 pm

Right of the top of my head there are two examples for dead babies:
"Trainspotting", though the drug addicted parents were not main cast.
In the series "The Knick". And it is indeed main cast.

SolarSystem · July 25, 2016 6:04 pm

Maybe AA is overreacting a bit here. I'm watching a lot of tv shows - and when I'm saying a lot I really mean a lot - and as far as I'm concerned it's difficult to imagine that they've reinvented the wheel. I'm sure they've come up with something stunning, but somehow I doubt that there's something out there that has never been done before.
And I'm not sure I'd call killing off the baby of a main character 'groundbreaking'. Sorry.

Vhanja · July 25, 2016 6:04 pm

Well, to be honest, I don't think Sue and Amanda would giggle about killing off a baby as a groundbreaking thing.

To be honest, the way the cast and crew keep talking about "an emotional roller coaster" and "darker than before", I'm starting to feel a mounting dread towards S4. This is going to be painful!

SusiGo · July 25, 2016 6:15 pm

Vhanja wrote:
I'm a Johnlocker myself, so personally I don't mind one bit. However, I can see how it can become slightly annoying for non-lockers if Johnlock keep bleeding into most threads where they aren't really on topic (especially when it's not a serious post about the topic, but just jokes and memes).

(Also, I'm curious as to the source of the "grumpy bi" and "campy gay"-thing. Mark didn't say that neiter at the Comic con panel nor the Nerd panel yesterday?)

Vhanja, the video is here, btw:

http://johnlockfulfillment.tumblr.com/post/147955188505/jenna221b-quietlyprim-this-has-to-be-one-of

Vhanja · July 25, 2016 6:17 pm

Yeah, I commented upon it just above, but thanks.

SusiGo · July 25, 2016 6:21 pm

Btw, am I the only one getting the impression that no one in the team gives a toss about this baby? That it does not matter at all? That questions are met evasively and awkwardly as if they had already forgotten about the baby?

This Is The Phantom Lady · July 25, 2016 6:26 pm

Or maybe they are afraid any word they'd speak of the baby could spoil things?

Vhanja · July 25, 2016 6:28 pm

As I see it, the fact that they become very evasive and awkward whenever the baby comes up, tells me something is going to happen to her. That is why I wonder if the baby will die, and quite early on as well. Since she is not talked about, not in how the baby would influence the dynamics etc. That would also help explain the "emotional rollercoater" and how the series is "darker".

And that leads me to thinking: Will the Watsons be weakend or strengthend by such an ordeal? To me, it would make sense that such a horror would mainly be dealt with in-between episodes or seasons, as is done with Sherlock's "death" and the Watson "domestic". In a three episode arc, you can't spend too much time on grieving, so it's mostly done off-screen.

Liberty · July 25, 2016 6:46 pm

What if Mary is Sherrinford? What if uncle Sherlock is literally uncle Sherlock? I doubt it, but it would explain some things (like Mycroft's attitude towards Mary, etc.). It would mean Sherlock's parents reaction to her is a puzzle, unless they've forgotten about her - ha ha! But back in those days, it wasn't that unusual to give up children for adoption if circumstances were difficult. That would give the baby (one of the three) even more meaning to Sherlock, and actually make Sherlock related to John. Ok, I'm going off on a fantasy, but why not? It's just an idea .

No, I still prefer my idea of "television history" linking the show to a real event, or affecting the audience in some way beyond what we see. We saw Moriarty taking over the media in the show, but what if it could happen in real life? Or what if all our phones could have said "Wrong" when ASIP first aired? Or what if some real life event happened while S4 was airing and S4 somehow predicted it or told a story around it?

I'm still curious about how much forward in time we're going to go, if it will bring us up to the present day or not.

Vhanja · July 25, 2016 6:49 pm

Another interesting that may (or may not) link into S3 - when someone from the audience asked how it was to be around your relatives when doing the show, Ben immediately jumped on him playing with his parents. Unless his parents are part of S4, that was years ago, and it would make more sense for Amanda to answer that question (who plays with Martin).

So either Mummy and Daddy Holmes are part of S4, or Ben just got carried away again.

besleybean · July 25, 2016 6:49 pm

I've always thought Mary could be the other one...she seems about the right age, for a start.

Vhanja · July 25, 2016 6:51 pm

I know I'm being childish here, but I DON*T want Mary to play any bigger part in this than she already is.

Liberty · July 25, 2016 6:55 pm

I would have said the same thing, except that I'm now getting quite excited about Mary's role in S4! And yes, Besleybean, about the right age, and it would explain a lot of those little niggly things (like why she happened to be working at John's surgery). Sherlock clearly isn't in on it, but Mycroft could be.

Good point about the relatives, although I didn't see that bit (is there a link?) so I don't know how it came about. I'd love to see Benedict's parents in S4!