Did you see her tweet from today? Did not sound like discomfort at all. 
 

It was the Penis tweet. 😉

So glad you didn't have to google that, Schmiezi!  Who knows what you would have found!

I thought I should bring this over here, rather than the Setlock thread, as I know some people are happy to believe in Johnlock and don't want to get involved in a debate over it.

Liberty wrote:

Schmiezi wrote:

Me too, of course. I have no idea what a non-Johnlocker might expect now, so if someone likes to share their view ...

I am happy to!  (Depending on what you mean by "Johnlocker"!   I'm a Johnlocker in the sense of supporting shipping them, fan fiction, etc., but I don't think it's actually happening in the show).   I'm just not sure whether to answer here or on  the other thread.   I'll answer quickly here - might cross-post if it's something we want to talk about later ...

http://waitingforgarridebs.tumblr.com/post/147787163721/constancecream-steven-moffat-at-the-nerdist

He can't be talking about John or Sherlock here.   Their sexuality has been mentioned and and even made a "thing" at times, and he says that's not the way he show it.   If he's talking about BBC Sherlock, I suspect that the character that would fit best would be Mycroft.  We don't know his orientation for sure, and it hasn't been made a thing of (although maybe a couple of little hints?), and it would be so easy for him just to have a male ex or whatever.   

However, he wasn't talking specifically about BBC Sherlock at that point, so it might not be any character in it.   He's already written Vastra and Jenny (Doctor Who) in exactly this way.   They face some prejudice because Vastra is an alien, but the fact that they are both female is never mentioned or commented on, it just is.   And of course I could be wrong, but I assume he's saying that if he wanted to make John and Sherlock gay, he'd just have done it - it wouldn't be hidden, but it also wouldn't be commented on. 

It reminds me a lot of Mark's comment on the same subject, about the "gently, gently" approach - you want to show people as gay but make it incidental, rather than the point.

I've brought this over here, because I came across this, this morning:

http://sussexbound.tumblr.com/post/147868225081/constancecare

I don't know if it's true (only because I don't know how to tell!  I know there's such a lot of stuff on the internet and I'm not sure how to filter it.  I'm not meaning to imply that the person who posted is lying - I had a look at the account and it looks genuine to me).  Maybe we'll get some confirmation at some point from somebody who has been there.  

The last bit strikes a chord with me - that they are known to lie, but their candor and passion was clear.  That reminds me of Mark at Mumbai.  He seemed completely genuine.   So it looks like (if this is true), we know the answer now?

I still had something to say on the topic, something I'd been mulling over. I might post something later.
 

I think passionately flat out denying it is quite different to hiding a plot point .  (I just posted a link to them hiding a plot point with Mary's death, and it's done in a completely different way). 

Anyway, what has been bothering me is that I was watching this video in the TJLCE series:
https://youtu.be/YnjmqOdW-Ms

Of all the videos in that series, this one was the most moving and emotional because it was about fans' feelings about Johnlock and why it matters to them.   I was surprised by how young they were, as a group, (because we're a bit of an older bunch here!), but I suppose also by how much they were personally, passionately invested in it, and how much it's bound up in their own exploration of their identies and sexualities. 

I felt worried that, if S4 ends up not showing Johnlock (from what I've read, it seems that TJLC says it will be definitely be S4 and that the kiss has already been filmed), it could be hugely upsetting for some people.   I'm also concerned that they are so invested in characters who, so far, at least, have not been shown to be LGBT, and who, if they are, have spent six years hiding it and not expressing it.   There are few enough positive representations out there, and it seems such a shame that young people are latching on to ones that either don't exist or are hidden.  
 

Last edited by Liberty (July 24, 2016 12:17 pm)

But it's kind of sad, because the implication is that same sex love should be disguised as friendship.   Or perhaps, that there are so few good LGBT representations on TV, that people ending up identifying with characters who aren't LGBT. 

I don't know if you watched the video, but a lot of people said that they found out they were gay/bi through watching Sherlock and John, two people who even in middle age never admit to being gay/bi, and who never have same sex romantic relationships, or sex for that matter (opposite sex relationships, attractions, sex, etc. are all OK, though).   It's almost as if it's something that shouldn't be expressed.   That's still a bit of an issue even if Moftiss eventually did show them getting together.   But as it looks like they're not going to, what is going to be like for people who have invested so much in this?   They were using it as something to get them through mental illness, leaving abusive relationships, etc.,  I hope they can shrug it off like you say, but I just don't know.

I think the kiss is speculation so far. And I share your wishes. 

I have never seen this is as love disguising as friendship. IMO it has always been love but not explicitly stated. This had been done hundreds of times in heterosexual love stories as well without people having to state that they are straight. And if there was nothing in the show to justify all these analyses and questions, people would long have stopped caring. But they still do care. 

That's what worries me, KeepersPrice.  I thought the comments about the community were lovely, and hopefully they would continue to support each other if it doesn't happen, but how would people feel individually if they've grown up using these characters as LGBT role models? 

I honestly think the gentle or soft approach is what we see with Vastra and Jenny (written by Steven Moffat).  They are a lesbian couple in a very famous childrens/family show which I believe is now shown in many countries, not just the UK.  They are just shown and it's not commented on.   Everybody who watches Doctor Who can see it.   That's not the case with Sherlock (it's kind of the opposite - it's commented on, by the show, a lot, but never shown, and the general public don't see it, and the writers deny it). 

If somebody grew up using Vastra and Jenny as LGBT role models, that would be very positive.  But using John and Sherlock in that way, a couple who are never, ever shown as gay, makes being gay a kind of dirty secret.  (I had similar problem with Harry Potter - it had one character revealed by the writer as gay at the end, whereas there was a huge missed opportunity for children to grow up reading about gay characters.  I have a lot of respect for J K Rowling, and the books are hers, of course, but it's a bit disappointing.  And I'm so glad that my child grew up with an LGBT character in Torchwood and Doctor Who!).  

(The information about the filmed kiss was from tumblr and from the person who made the video I posted above.  Then there were also the comments Steven Moffat made a day or two ago, which people took to mean that S4 was going to show Johnlock).
 

ewige wrote:

I figure it depends on your perspective.
There's no hiding of johnlock on the show if you ask me. My kid will grow up seeing how men do extraordinary things for each other and that's a more meaningful love relationship than one involving kissing, in my book.

That is a wonderful statement!

Oh, ok, I get your meaning. There's not much straight kissing in stuff we're watching either so it's still balanced out, I think