BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Marvellous Midyear Fic Exchange 2016

nakahara · July 11, 2016 12:53 pm

gently69 wrote:
Okay.
So, there HAVE to be rules and warnings for the next exchange. Like the warning for nuts in food. My opinion: a bit absurd... but hey, if it has to be so...

In my opinion the rules were absolutely sufficient in this exchange.
Sex was absolutely excluded from the stories which made the stories readable for anyone who doesn´t want to see any sexual content in them.
The warnings like "two men/women will appear in these stories together" is too excessive and actually quite insulting. Being gay is nothing you should be ashamed about and nothing which should be hidden because some people can by chance be unconfortable with it.

SusiGo · July 11, 2016 12:54 pm

I am astonished that we have to discuss these things at all in forum about a show which:

- has at least four openly gay actors in it
- has been created and is produced by people who have repeatedly joined fundraisers for LBGT charities
- has a blog which is written by a gay man
- has been commissioned by a gay man
- has in its contents always been open and welcoming about LBGT issues
- has at least five characters which are LGBT (and no, Sherlock and John are not included)

I have no idea how one can love this show while at the same time being turned off by same-sex love.

P.S. Exactly, nakahara. And this is why I refused to tag my fic. IMO same-sex does not need a warning.

Last edited by SusiGo (July 11, 2016 12:58 pm)

gently69 · July 11, 2016 12:54 pm

What about relationships... Sherlock and Molly or Irene for example? Also a no go for you, beasleybean?

ukaunz · July 11, 2016 12:57 pm

SusiGo wrote:
I am astonished that we have to discuss these things at all in forum about a show which:

- has at least four openly gay actors in it
- has been created and is produced by people who have repeatedly joined fundraisers for LBGT charities
- has a blog which is written by a gay man
- has been commissioned by a gay man
- has in its contents always been open and welcoming about LBGT issues
- has at least five characters which are LGBT (and no, Sherlock and John are not included)

I have no idea how one can love a show while at the same time being turned off by same-sex love.

P.S. Exactly, nakahara. And this is why I refused to tag my fic. IMO same-sex does not need a warning.

Thank you, Susi. I was trying to think of a way to say all of this

ukaunz · July 11, 2016 12:57 pm

gently69 wrote:
What about relationships... Sherlock and Molly or Irene for example? Also a no go for you, beasleybean?

Or John and Mary...

gently69 · July 11, 2016 12:58 pm

John and Mary? Ah yes... LOL...

SolarSystem · July 11, 2016 1:25 pm

I suppose you can't change the way people think. And to be honest, if people don't want to read Johnlock and are convinced that every single Sherlock fic has to be slash, so be it. *hits head on desk*
But then please: Don't join a fic exchange in a Sherlock forum! (And probably don't join a Sherlock forum in the first place...)

ukaunz · July 11, 2016 1:54 pm

Well I don't know if I'd go that far, everyone should be welcome to join this forum no matter their views as long as they keep offensive opinions to themselves. I'm not accusing anyone of being blatantly offensive, either. It's just disappointing.

Someone refusing to read a fic because it has gay characters (in an exchange that they chose to participate in) to me seems akin to someone going to a dinner party in real life and refusing to converse with one of the guests because they are gay.

SolarSystem · July 11, 2016 2:02 pm

ukaunz wrote:
Well I don't know if I'd go that far, everyone should be welcome to join this forum no matter their views as long as they keep offensive opinions to themselves.

Well, if they are keeping their offensive opinions to themselves, it'll be difficult to know about those opinions.
In the end anyone can join any internet forum, and that's basically a good thing. I'm just not interested in reading any discriminatory comments here.

besleybean · July 11, 2016 2:09 pm

I confess I remain a tad puzzled as to why there still appears to be misunderstandings here.
Okay, to try and tease things out a bit.
I refer members to my previous comments on the importance of fan fic in the Sherlock fandom.
I think the only comments I want to add are: 1, many different people like fan fic, asexual people for example, who obviously wouldn't want to read any relationship fic.
2. Now it may then be considered that this excludes such people from any fic exchange, if there is a requirement for them to read all other types and certainly as many of the other fics as possible(obviously people understand time restraints etc).
But we then seemed to get people upset that it was homophobic for people not to read slash fic. I would contest this, because of the above.
However, of course sometimes people do write Sherlolly etc. I've never seen any fics with this and I wasn't aware there were any in this exchange like that.
But again, I can only suggest people ask individuals if it's all relationships they don't want to read about(which makes more sense to me), or if it is just gay ones.
I have made my own views quite plain on a number of occasions, but as I have said before, I don't expect everybody to hang onto every word I type( though I do object to being misrepresented)- so I shall reiterate:
In my real life, I fantasise BBC Sherlock and this may include slash pairings.
I have written( and am currently writing) Sherlock fanfic, which has included gay pairings(but only of my own invented characters)and in fact in the current instance a well known BBC Sherlock slash pairing...but not in the obvious way.(suffice to say I have had to put a trigger warning on said fic)
I don't generally read fan fic, but have read much as a beta.
I love doing the beta work and am perfectly happy to read about any relationship pairings in those.
Hope this is clear.

Last edited by besleybean (July 11, 2016 2:11 pm)

ukaunz · July 11, 2016 2:15 pm

It all comes down to how someone phrases what sort of fics they will or won't read, I guess.

Out of curiosity besley, are you aware of the difference between the words "trigger" and "squick"?

besleybean · July 11, 2016 2:17 pm

I wasn't, but I can guess.
Is the latter just what people don't like?
My 'trigger' warning is about gay rape.

ukaunz · July 11, 2016 2:20 pm

That would definitely be appropriate to tag as a trigger warning. It wasn't clear in your previous post, so I thought I'd ask

Squick
(slang) A source of individual psychological discomfort. That which makes one "squirm and say ick." To gross out, to disgust. (Source: Wiktionary)

Last edited by ukaunz (July 11, 2016 2:27 pm)

besleybean · July 11, 2016 2:44 pm

More or less as I thought, then.

Vhanja · July 11, 2016 3:10 pm

I think it's fine that we all have different tastes and different limits to what we find uncomfortable. I might have tags I enjoy that would make others uncomfortable, and vice versa. For someone who view Sherlock and John as friends, it might be uncomfortable reading about them as romantic partners, even if there aren't any explicit sex scenes.

For instance, I think I would find it ucomfortable reading a fic where Sherlock and Lestrade were a couple. And that has nothing to do with homophobia (obviously, as I love Johnlock fics), but that it would just seem too odd for me with that particular pairing. It would be the same if it was, for instance, John and Molly as a couple. Or any other combination, heterosexually or homosexually, that I didn't picture as a possible romantic interest.

However, another point is that if I knew that there would be a big chance of Sherlock/Lestrade-fics, and plenty of them, because that was people's favorite pairing on this board, I wouldn't have joined the challenge.

We all have "things we like and things we don't like" for whatever personal reason, and I think we should respect that. In the same manner, we should also show respect for other people's writing, no matter if they contain a pairing or a tag we don't like.

Last edited by Vhanja (July 11, 2016 3:10 pm)

ukaunz · July 11, 2016 3:15 pm

I don't object to someone wanting to avoid romance or relationships in fics. I do object to people treating gay relationships differently to het relationships, no matter what your own orientation might be.

The thing is, the fics in this exchange would actually be "rated" lower than BBC Sherlock on tv. There are more sexual references in an average episode than in these stories. If someone can watch BBC Sherlock without having their sensibilities offended, then they should be able to read these fics without any problems.

I feel the same about many of the pairings you mentioned, Vhanja. And I have many squicks. But I would still read the fics if I was participating in the exchange.

As an example, I find incest squicky, even if it is between two consenting adults and there is no resulting progeny. However, if someone had submitted a Sherlock/Mycroft fic to this exchange, I would still have read it, comfortable in the knowledge that there would be no sex scenes (because that was in the rules). I could cope with g- or even teen-rated descriptions of kisses and cuddles between the brothers, I could even gloss over those bits if I wanted to... It's not the like whole fic is going to be porn without plot. It might not be my cup of tea, but I would give the author the courtesy of reading and commenting on it. No one is forcing me to, but I would read it in the spirit of the exchange.

I'm not forcing anyone to read something they don't want to. I just don't want to ignore what I consider to be a homophobic attitude, because I think our society needs to acknowledge it.

Schmiezi · July 11, 2016 3:19 pm

Well put, Vhanja. I would put it like that :

We all have things we like and don't like. But every adult taking part in an exchange like ours should be polite enough to read short non-explicit fics they don't like.

For the Christmas exchange I read a veeeeery long fic that included a good and clever Mary. I definitely didn't like that part but found great aspects about it I could comment on. And I mean I really really don't like Good!Mary.

I expect that attitude from all participants.

besleybean · July 11, 2016 3:19 pm

@ ukaunz I hear and understand you, but I feel exactly the same about the subject of asexuality...

EDIT: I would add, expectations may not be enough...state things in exchange rules

Last edited by besleybean (July 11, 2016 3:21 pm)

SusiGo · July 11, 2016 3:25 pm

Just one question: I am not sure how asexuality does come into this debate.

ukaunz · July 11, 2016 3:26 pm

@besleybean Okay, but there asexual people watching Sherlock and not having a problem with the relationships and sexual references shown on screen, so why would those same people have a problem with it in fics?

Last edited by ukaunz (July 11, 2016 3:27 pm)