It's not an excuse - it's just that we have very little to go on.   Neither Sherlock nor John seem to want to or need to know more, which seems to mean either that they trust their feelings about her (she's basically neutral - good), or that one or both does know more and they have a bigger plan which will be revealed in S4 (for instance, we don't know for certain that John didn't look at the memory stick). 

If the former is the case, then I think he forgives her in the way that he forgives Sherlock - he's concerned about the personal hurt and betrayal rather than the bigger picture.   If the latter, then it might be part of the plan. 

I think TAB is about all we've got to go on - they're not showing as plotting against Mary there, and it's Sherlock's mind palace so if it had been on his mind (surely it would be, on the plane?), then you'd think that would come out.   

So not an excuse - just thinking about what explanation best ties all the pieces together, given the very little we know.   And more than one explanation is valid, of course. 

Thanks, Liberty and ukaunz, I fully agree.

I cannot see it this way. I just don't think that it makes sense to differentiate the shooting incident and Mary's past. It goes hand in hand. It is more that the past leads up to the shooting in a chain of events.

tonnaree wrote:

For me, if it turns out that John has really totally forgiven Mary, I will be deeply disappointed.  Not only has she done nothing to earn that forgiveness, but John still has no idea who she really is.  The woman he thought he knew is a lie.

I agree. 

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

I know I'm the odd man out here, (woman  ) but-- I see Mary shooting Sherlock as worse than her past. Worse, much less excusable. She shot a friend, her husband's best friend, who was actually offering to help her at the time. If it were anyone but Mary, this would be called what it is-- treachery, betrayal of the most craven sort. 

YES!!

I see people bring up the cabbie, and talk about how Sherlock and John are the same as Mary, and the point I was trying to make is that the crucial difference is this: Jeff Hope was a serial killer. Sherlock's life was in danger, that's why John shot him. Sherlock tortured (and yes, I hated that scene) Hope for information into who his patron was, who turned out to be Moriarty.

Neither of them shot someone who was supposed to be a dear friend.

Mary had no qualms about it. The concept of loyalty means nothing to her, and if John actually did forgive her, it will be very hard to see him like I did in season one and two.

It's about loyalty and honor . Mary has none.

besleybean wrote:

Well I'm with John and will trust his instincts and decisions...

If I trust John and his instincts and decisions, and go by the surface reading that he completely forgave Mary-- then by that logic, I no longer trust him around Sherlock, in fact, I don't want John anywhere near him.

It means that John is as incapable of being loyal to Sherlock as Mary is.

 

besleybean wrote:

I think they are both loyal to Sherlock, but Mary will always put John first.

 
You just made my point. So, following that logic, John and Mary shouldn't be Sherlock's first priority anymore. Sherlock should stop sacrificing his life, his happiness, everything! for someone who doesn't do the same for him.

Keep in mind, that this is the view I end up with, if John has truly forgiven Mary, and truly puts her first, over Sherlock.

besleybean wrote:

I think Sherlock puts John first and he knows that means protecting Mary.

 
He's a much better, more forgiving people than I would be.... he really shouldn't.

Vhanja wrote:

I think calling it excuses it's about the same as me calling some people's views of Sherlock's behaviour as handwaving. It's true to what we feel is happening or what we are seeing, but it doesn't sit well with those who are met with those kind of descriptions. 

For me, as always, it has to do with not using double standard and seeing everything in perspective and what circumstances they happened in. For instance, people talk about remorse. I never saw Sherlock showing any remorse for torturing the cabbie, nor John for shooting him. Yes, Sherlock's world wiew and character has changed since that happened - just as Mary's life and decisions has changed as she left her work as an assassin to start a new, "normal" life.

Also, the fact that the narrative isn't over yet - we simply don't know what will happen with the Mary storyline in the future season. So there are many reasons for me to be on the fence and withhold judgement. Which has little to do with excuse and more to do with perspective, nuances, and awaiting the story to be concluded before I make up my mind - at least for me.

But I certainly don't need any excuse to defend Mary (except what I feel should be fair judgment on all characters) - the sooner she leaves the show, the better, as far as I'm concerned. And I don't even care if she leaves as a hero or a villain, as long as she leaves.

Totally with you on the leaving!!!! :-)