My two cents - I think we do not need either word. My problem with "bashing" as opposed to "cringe" is this: 
It completely ignores all attempts to explain why some people do not like Mary or regard her as a villain. It demeans their efforts at matter-of-fact explanation. And this is what we usually do not in here. This thread is not titled "Why I love Mary" or "Why I hate Mary". This is about discussing her character and that is not bashing. 

 

Thank you, mrshouse. I remember when I watched it for the first time and went, no, this cannot be true, he cannot be serious. And this has not changed. I have watched it time again but it fails to convince me. Especially if compared with Sherlock begging forgiveness. More than once. 

No, I wouldn't say that he is not forgiving, the scene is just not convincing and lovely for everybody. It's hard to tell why that is so for some. A couple of reasons I should think.

mrshouse wrote:

Okay. I'll rephrase: I felt a need to bite a cushion instead of happily looking at the screen.
I won't use it again. Promised.

 
I didn't have a problem with the word "cringe", because it's describing one's personal reaction to the scene. And by the way, I had the same reaction! Other descriptors: flinched, recoiled, reared back in dismay, double take, mouth dropped open, befuddled, stared at screen in  shock, stood up and began yelling at my monitor-- you get the picture.

"Bashing" , however seems to have acquired a new meaning: " Saying anything I don't agree with about my favorite character, or saying anything non-flattering about that character, or simply not being as in love with that character as I am, and therefore not being able to successfully avoid thinking critically about her".

Back in the olden days, I think the word had far less nuance....

tonnaree wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

I get the impression that they did not have dinner together. Remember, Mrs Holmes is preparing something in the kitchen, there are potatoes on the laptop. I suppose dinner would have taken place later but then the Appledore disaster prevented it. Imagine Mummy and Mary sitting there, waiting for the boys, the monstrous mother and the woman who shot her son … bit awkward. And Daddy Holmes and Billy in between. 
 

Is it wrong that I would kind of enjoy this?  Part of me really wants Mummy Holmes to find out who shot her boy. 

I really, REALLY want to see Mummy Holmes find out who put a bullet in her boy!!!! Dream come true, right there!
 

besleybean wrote:

To what end?

 
Well, for one, I'd really love to see someone who actually cares about Sherlock not just blithely forgive the woman who nearly killed him!

I really want to see Mary get her comeuppance! I'd love to see Mummy slap the heck out of (non-pregnant)  Mary, like Molly slapped Sherlock, for less reason. And then Mycroft hauls her off to prison. :-)

But that's just ME. 

All I'm saying is that of all people, Mummy Holmes can be excused for wanting vengeance on the woman who nearly killed her baby!

We excuse Mary for shooting Sherlock, because she was trying to protect her relationship--it's the reaction of Momma bear, right?

Surely Mummy Holmes gets the same consideration?  Mary shot her baby, and almost killed him!

Actually, Mummy's reaction is the only one that seems reasonable!

besleybean wrote:

Well yes, but I really don't think we need to take it any further.

 
I suspect that Mummy Holmes would not agree. ;-)

RavenMorganLeigh wrote:

tonnaree wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

I get the impression that they did not have dinner together. Remember, Mrs Holmes is preparing something in the kitchen, there are potatoes on the laptop. I suppose dinner would have taken place later but then the Appledore disaster prevented it. Imagine Mummy and Mary sitting there, waiting for the boys, the monstrous mother and the woman who shot her son … bit awkward. And Daddy Holmes and Billy in between. 
 

Is it wrong that I would kind of enjoy this?  Part of me really wants Mummy Holmes to find out who shot her boy. 

I really, REALLY want to see Mummy Holmes find out who put a bullet in her boy!!!! Dream come true, right there!
 

 I dream of something similar as in Harry Potter 7.2. The encounter between Molly Weasley and Bellatrix Lestrange....

Yes