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June 3, 2016 6:11 pm  #5761


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

But I think the BBC are happy to show same sex relationships.  Moftiss write for Doctor Who, which has a same sex Watson/Holmes type relationship in it and is a children's show.  I believe Doctor Who is shown outside the UK too, as well as Torchwood (which also had a same sex romance, and a pansexual character who also appeared in Doctor Who).   More recently some of us watched the wonderful London Spy, which had a big name cast. 

If they really did want to make it something where sexuality wasn't the point, then they could have made John gay/bi to start with and let it just happen.  By making him straight (or at least straight-identified, if you want to argue that), sexual orientation becomes the issue when they get together.  (Or making him straight could be a way of letting the audience know that it's not going to happen.  It seems to avert speculation rather than encourage it).

It's years since I watched X-files so I can't speak for them, but I don't remember the couple being established in that way - that either of them was made out to be gay at the beginning.  I honestly can't remember and can't really compare the two!   But I do seem to remember that it was a weekly show for a while, rather than three episodes every two years or so.

Last edited by Liberty (June 3, 2016 6:16 pm)

 

June 3, 2016 6:25 pm  #5762


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

mrshouse wrote:

 
Guys, seriously! I'm sorry, but you're not serious about John and Mary being the big romance here? I swallow that everything has to bow to having a female character on the show and her being all kinds of awesome (vomits into mouth) and shoving no-johnlock down our throats by casting Amanda but this is the Sherlock and John Show!

Nowhere did it say anything about the big romance, only that the show included romance. I don't think hair dye or Welsh winters are that important in the show either, he's just listing slightly funny and intriguing bits and pieces from the experience.


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
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June 3, 2016 6:34 pm  #5763


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Well they got married and made a baby...nearest thing to romance we've seen in the show.
Thank goodness.

Last edited by besleybean (June 3, 2016 6:34 pm)


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June 3, 2016 6:35 pm  #5764


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

@lib. But it would not have been sucessful would it ?
Or as much fun.
Remember the endings of S01 and S02 when the writers thought it might actually be the end.
They are about love , they agree to die together to take Moriarty out because oops Sherlock does have a heart  and TRF where Sherlock dies ish because he has loved ones - again mainly John. Then HLV again Sherlocks love for John is central . Not to mention TAB waterfall.
All the endings we have so far are about love between S@J .

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (June 3, 2016 6:37 pm)


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

June 3, 2016 6:38 pm  #5765


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Once again, nobody has ever argued against that.
They do love each other as best friends, but they are not IN love - like a couple.
Like John and Mary.


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June 3, 2016 6:39 pm  #5766


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes, they've said that their relationship is central, and that I'm sure they said that's what people fall in love with.  

I'll see if I can find some more quotes about the relationship from the Chronicles! 

 

June 3, 2016 6:49 pm  #5767


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Mark: "A strange young man with an outrageous sense of entitlement, whose older brother is something mysterious in the Civil Service, solving crimes with his adrenalin-junkie mate - all of that is in the original stories.   As much as we adore the Victorian versions, they have become museum pieces wher people approach them like great edifices, which is the absolute diametric oppoiste of how Doyle thought of them himself.   So we wanted to blow away the Victorian fog, to get back to the fantastic relationship between these two men, and that's what's happened".


 

 

June 3, 2016 6:57 pm  #5768


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

This is going to be a long one, but I think it sums up some things we've talked about here:

Steven: We did a bit of deducing, I suppose.  We were wondering what Watson would have been like.  He must have been an adrenalin junkie!  He always talks about Sherlock Holmes getting bored between case, but so does Watson.  He's desperate for it as well: the thrill in his heart, the revolver in his coat - he loves it.

Mark: .. a modern war veteran, a man who lost his mojo.  And next to him we have Sherlock, who is on the verge of becoming a psychopath.   They meet each other at exactly the right moment, and they become one unit essentially.   So it was all about making the parts of equal size, giving them a hinterland of experience.  It's a huge moment in A Study in Pink, when Mycroft sya, "You're not haunted by the war, Dr Watson, you miss it!.  That explains everything about what John Watson puts up with and why he puts up with it - because in the end it's worth it to him.,

Steven: He's just as addicted. He likes to pretend that he's the sane, rational, normal one, but he's as bad as Sherlock in all those respects.  He's as keen for adventure as Sherlock, as irritable when it's absent.  I think you always have to remember that, of all the people that Sherlock ever ment, this is the one he chose to rely on.  In the judgment of a genius, this is a brilliant man.  He's not a brain, but Sherlock doesn't need another brain.  He needs the most reliable, competent, dependable human being in the world

 

June 3, 2016 7:14 pm  #5769


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I was talking about X-files having a slow burn hetro romance that wasn't actually confirmed as a romance until the show was almost over. 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

June 3, 2016 7:20 pm  #5770


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yes apologies , but I think listening to the writers one must  caveat emptor !
Look at the crime scene rather than believe the suspects.


"Man may not be degraded  to being a machine by being denied to be a ghost in the machine."
It's just transport. The virus in the hard drive . However impossible .Must be the truth.
 

June 3, 2016 7:21 pm  #5771


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

And one of the characters married somebody else.


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June 3, 2016 7:44 pm  #5772


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Boy, this is really killing me. So either "romance" in the foreword is meant as a general statement about the process of the show or it is meant to describe John and Mary. But it certainly has nothing to do with Sherlock and John...? Right. Excuse me while I go and shoot myself. 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

June 3, 2016 7:46 pm  #5773


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Please don't...not unless you are like a Sherlockian character and come back from the dead, or even refuse to die!


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June 3, 2016 7:48 pm  #5774


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Yeah, not possible.
I'll follow you, dear...


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

June 3, 2016 7:49 pm  #5775


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Not possible?


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June 3, 2016 7:56 pm  #5776


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

I didn't say that, Solar.  I don't want to repost my post but have a look back, and at the full quote from Mark.  I think the full quote puts it in context.

 

June 3, 2016 9:25 pm  #5777


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

My post wasn't meant as an answer to only one post in particular.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

June 3, 2016 10:09 pm  #5778


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

So, this may be a bit off-topic but it isn't really... I just stumbled across this little comic, and thought about this debate. It's a bit long, but give it a read if you have a few minutes to spare. It's well worth it, and has a very beautiful message.


Doomsteady on AO3 & Tumblr
 

June 4, 2016 6:34 am  #5779


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

Nice comic, and now I've got the song "There are more questions than answers" stuck in my head!

Solar, I didn't want to speak for everybody else, but I was the one who brought it up ... it was in answer to the idea that this quote was Mark saying the show was about Johnlock (which was at odds with the Mumbai interview). 

 

June 4, 2016 7:13 am  #5780


Re: Johnlock: The Official Debate

And only in the latter do we KNOW he was talking about Johnlock.


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