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May 22, 2016 7:16 am  #541


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

This is my officially favourite Richard III from now. Not only because of Benedict - he was as perfect (or even more perfect) as it was to be expected. But IMO he was helped very much by an intelligent approach to the script of Power's and cinematographic instinct of Cooke's: kudos to them both for the courage and imagination. Whereas the first HC series was just a theatrical playes transplanted to the television and helped by excellent performances, Cooke transformed theatre into movies and did it brilliantly.
Loved the first scene with Okenedo. TBH the only one I was not totally convinced by, was Judi Dench. She is already something of living legend, so it is not allowed to say anything against her performances, but I think she is simply too old for the part. Her deliverance of the lines was beatiful, but her body language and her face especially didn't convey that much expressivity.

 

May 22, 2016 7:31 am  #542


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

I admit, I can kind of agree with you on the last part.
Judi was very good, but it's the first time I've really noticed her being old.
I did think Okenedo excellent and I sniff a BAFTA.
But yes, I thought Benedict was excellent(he does play a good villain) and I loved the way it was shot etc.
Having said all of that, I actually preferred last week's episode and I loved the first series.
We do all know they are doing the Roman series next?


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May 22, 2016 8:12 am  #543


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

besleybean wrote:

I Having said all of that, I actually preferred last week's episode

 I think in a way I preferred it, was well, not because it was "better" than last night Richard, but - because it was something new. Richard is so well known, or at least I know the play so well, having read it at watched for dozen times if not more, so the main pleasure is kind "how will they do it this time?". Henry VI was a revelation, so fresh and compelling.I loved Richard II, but watching Henry IV and V I wondered at times whether they couldn't have been bolder - the director and the screenwriter, I mean. TV is not the same medium as the theatre and IMO you need to take it into consideration, if you don't want to stop at just "filming" theatre (not sure I make sense).
 

 

May 22, 2016 8:15 am  #544


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

I know exactly what you mean and am with you most of the way.
See the thing for me, Tennant's stage RII was brilliant, but even then, didn't touch Ben Whishaw.
But I love the way they kept stage RIII's  asides, by having him speak to camera.


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May 22, 2016 9:43 am  #545


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

@besleybean: The Roman series? If I remember correctly, the only plays that are in a way consecutive are "Julius Caesar" and "Antony and Cleopatra" since they both have Mark Antony as a character. Do you know more about this project? Will they be doing "Coriolanus" and "Titus Andronicus" as well? 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

May 22, 2016 9:50 am  #546


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

On my Google alerts( i think it was): it named JC, A&C and Coriolanus.


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May 22, 2016 10:21 am  #547


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

Thank, this sounds very promising. 

As for HC: I cannot add much others have not said before. It was amazing, wonderful performances, brilliant cinematography. I loved the repeated motives of the drumming fingers and the reflections in blades. Benedict again allowed us glimpses into the soul of a man who is cruel and detestable but who somehow became this monster. And to be told your own mother that she hated you from the moment of birth does explain some thing or other. Which if course does not excuse his deeds but - and this is what Benedict is always going for - it shows the human being contained within the villain. 

 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

May 22, 2016 4:00 pm  #548


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

Well said.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

May 22, 2016 4:30 pm  #549


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

 

And then there's this... 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't talk out loud, you lower the IQ of the whole street!"

"Oh Watson. Nothing made me... I made me"
"Luuuuurve Ginger Nuts"

Tumblr[/url] I [url=http://archiveofourown.org/users/This_is_The_Phantom_Lady/pseuds/This_is_The_Phantom_Lady]AO3
#IbelieveInSeries5
 

May 22, 2016 4:32 pm  #550


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

He has the most amazing hands.


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May 22, 2016 4:34 pm  #551


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

He does, and they are big! 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't talk out loud, you lower the IQ of the whole street!"

"Oh Watson. Nothing made me... I made me"
"Luuuuurve Ginger Nuts"

Tumblr[/url] I [url=http://archiveofourown.org/users/This_is_The_Phantom_Lady/pseuds/This_is_The_Phantom_Lady]AO3
#IbelieveInSeries5
 

May 23, 2016 8:35 am  #552


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

I must admit that I got the giggles at the end of Buckingham's "oh, please be the King!" speech and Richard looked over his right shoulder at us.  It felt like a Martin Freeman/Tim Canterbury "doing the look to camera" moment!  Clearly Ben has learned everything he knows from Martin. ;-)

But wow.  Three Shakespeare films in a row which I've not only enjoyed but understood.  Marvellous performances from almost everyone, though I agree with others above that, staggeringly, to me the weakest performance was from Dench.  She gave the more 'classic' performance which I've seen so many times before and which has never encouraged me to like the Bard more.  Also, once it dawned on me that her character was the wife of Adrian Dunbar's York, I was trying to work out how many years ago it was since he died and thinking, "Isn't she a bit old?"

 

May 23, 2016 8:39 am  #553


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

York died in 1460, roughly twenty-five years before the events of this episode, at the age of 49. 

As for Dench - her part was not really strong compared to Margaret of Anjou, Queen Elizabeth, and Lady Anne. All other female parts were stronger than hers, so might have been partly due to the text itself. Tbh, during her speech with Richard I kept thinking, poor guy, to be hated like that from birth explains a lot of things. 

Last edited by SusiGo (May 23, 2016 8:39 am)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

May 24, 2016 7:08 am  #554


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

SusiGo wrote:

As for Dench - her part was not really strong compared to Margaret of Anjou, Queen Elizabeth, and Lady Anne. All other female parts were stronger than hers, so might have been partly due to the text itself. 

I am not sure I agree with you - Margaret has a stronger part, if we consider all the plays, but in RIII her role is relatively small, and Anne has just this one great scene of seduction. Elizabeth's part is, of course, the strongest here, but I've seen far more remarkable Cecilies - Maggie Smith in 1995 Loncraine's version, for example. Here my vote goes for Okenedo - she was absolutely outstanding, especially in her first scene in RIII.

Cecily in RIII is really mean and cruel towards Richard and one begins to think that her attitude could have had something to do with him becoming such a loathsome creature. But in the first two parts of HC it certainly didn't seem so - the actress who played Cecily there was kind of maternal and kind, the same goes for the father (I loved Adrian Dunbar as York).
 

 

May 24, 2016 7:13 am  #555


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

Yes, you are right, the three were all more memorable than Judi Dench. And I agree that Cecily's behaviour throws an interesting light on Richard's childhood and youth. To be detested by your own mother and probably outshone by your physically healthy brothers would be hard in any period and even more so in this. Which is why I love Shakespeare: even here he allows a subtler approach although on the surface Richard is just a cruel monster. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

May 24, 2016 7:20 am  #556


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

Seductive, goofy and meditative at the same time:








-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

May 24, 2016 7:27 am  #557


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

No love lost between him and his mother:



-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

May 24, 2016 7:28 am  #558


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")




-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

May 24, 2016 8:22 am  #559


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")

That scene with Judy made me think of the one in Sherlock... 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't talk out loud, you lower the IQ of the whole street!"

"Oh Watson. Nothing made me... I made me"
"Luuuuurve Ginger Nuts"

Tumblr[/url] I [url=http://archiveofourown.org/users/This_is_The_Phantom_Lady/pseuds/This_is_The_Phantom_Lady]AO3
#IbelieveInSeries5
 

May 24, 2016 8:31 am  #560


Re: The Hollow Crown: The Wars of the Roses (was "Richard III")


-----------------------------------

I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

 

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