BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Sherlock and Stockholm Syndrome

nakahara · May 5, 2016 11:31 am

Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Could Stockholm Syndrome be the reason why Sherlock protects and loves Mary despite the fact that she shot him into the chest and nearly killed him? Is Sherlock similar to these people who shielded their captors and abusers even after being saved from them and during the prosecution of those persons? Is it possible that by siding with Mary and identifying with her goals, Sherlock is trying to find some rational core to her mindless act of violence, so that he can perceive it as something reasonable and logical and thus less scary?

This could also explain why Sherlock is blind to the fact that continuous presence of Mary near John poses the danger to the good doctor (danger of being kidnapped and killed by Mary´s old enemies) and why he presses John back into her arms there at Baker Street, inventing the story of how Mary saved his life. If Sherlock suffers from the syndrome, this behaviour kinda makes sense, IMHO.

Whisky · May 5, 2016 11:33 am

I don't think Sherlock loves Mary, and I don't think they have a strong emotional bond. All Sherlock does for Mary, he does for John, imo.
I would agree his relation to her could be described as unhealthy. But I still see a lot of Sherlock in his behaviour, and I think he has his reasons for his actions. He doesn't seem to suffer from traumatic experience, at least not linked to Mary. But that's only my impression of what we are shown.

Last edited by Whisky (May 5, 2016 11:37 am)

nakahara · May 5, 2016 11:55 am

Whisky wrote:
I don't think Sherlock loves Mary, and I don't think they have a strong emotional bond.

Well, he really, really likes her to the point of self-sacrifice...
From Ariane de Vere´s transcript of TAB:

WATSON: Are you even in a fit state?
HOLMES: For Mary, of course. Never doubt that, Watson. Never that.

Liberty wrote:
I'm leaning more recently towards Sherlock feeling quite a strong connection to Mary, though ... the more I think of it, the more things make sense if you imagine him really, really caring for her (and not in that way! I would not like them to go down that route!).

Vhanja wrote:
Also, I agree with you that I think Sherlock really likes Mary. Because they are quite similar - intelligent, cold (when need to be) calculating, arrogant, logical. And they both care deeply for John.

And in my opinion he doesn´t suffer from traumatic experience because, as any other Stockholm Syndrom victims, he sides with his abuser and adapted her values as his own.

Vhanja · May 5, 2016 1:26 pm

No, I don't see how that fits. To develop Stockholm syndrome, you would usually have to be in isolation with the abuser, and unable (physically or mentally) to get away. Also, what Mary does to Sherlock can not be considered abuse in this type of context.

I don't see him adapting her views as his own either, as the traits they have in common are traits Sherlock had way before he met Mary. (From S1 and onwards).

So, no, I don't see any similarities between Stockholm Syndrome and Sherlock's attitude towards Mary. I find the comparison a bit odd, to be honest. It seems there are no limits to how far people can go when it comes to disliking Mary. Not only do some fans dislike her, they now also dislike John because he chose to be with her. And now she has also given poor Sherlock Stockholm Syndrome. I wonder what the next step will be?

nakahara · May 5, 2016 2:02 pm

Vhanja wrote:
It seems there are no limits to how far people can go when it comes to disliking Mary. Not only do some fans dislike her, they now also dislike John because he chose to be with her. And now she has also given poor Sherlock Stockholm Syndrome. I wonder what the next step will be?

This threat is solely dedicated to discussion of Sherlock´s strange mellowness towards Mary. Mary as such should be left out of it and discussed in Mary thread.

If you think Sherlock doesn´t suffer from SS, that´s alright too - if you support your opinions with arguments aimed at the theme not with argumentum ad hominem.

Sherlock is not in an isolation with Mary, that´s a fact. But some victims of Stockholm syndrome (as battered wives and abused children) are not locked together with their abusers too and they still qualify under it, so let´s presume Sherlock does too.

Also, some of Mary´s behaviour (bullet to the chest, belittling Sherlock in front of others) has the shades of abuse. Other things that remind me of Stockholm Syndrome regarding the relationship between Sherlock and Mary are these:

The presence of a perceived threat to one’s physical or psychological survival and the belief that the abuser would carry out the threat. (Well, after Mary shot Sherlock and threatened him when he was most helpless, this criteria could fit. Sherlock could think he would get to Mary´s good side with this behaviour and this helps him to survive her threats - especially when his protector, mycroft, remained absolutely oblivious of Mary´s threat, probably intentionally).

The presence of a perceived small kindness from the abuser to the victim. (Mary previously stated that she likes Sherlock and she tried to act as an intermediary between him and John in both TEH and TSOT. This could lead Sherlock to the conclusion that without her, the relationship between Sherlock and John would break and that John would leave.)

Positive feelings by the victim toward the abuser/controller, Support of the abuser’s reasons and behaviors, Supportive behaviors by the victim, at times helping the abuser (The whole "Mary saved my life" scene, Sherlock´s claim that he is always fit for Mary from TAB, Sherlock supporting Mary and inviting her to the house of his parents to help her reconcile with John... )

Some traits of Stockholm Syndrome that do not fit to Mary - Sherlock relationship:

Negative feelings by the victim toward family, friends, or authorities trying to rescue/support them or win their release. (no scene that would prove such thing)

Positive feelings by the abuser toward the victim. (maybe and maybe not)

Inability to engage in behaviors that may assist in their release or detachment. (probably not)

Vhanja · May 5, 2016 3:17 pm

In the situatuion of battered wives and abused children, they are mentally unable to leave. That is the situation I think is required to create Stockholm syndorme - being physically or mentally (or both) unable to leave. Thus, Stockholm syndrome comes into play as a survival mechanism.

None of this fits the relationship with Sherlock and Mary.

If any were to fit that label, it could be the relationship between Sherlock and Moriarty, but even that is too far a stretch because Sherlock isn't mentally or physically stuck in Moriarty's presence. I don't think that is how SS works.Neither do I think Mary fits the bill of an abuser in this context.

Last edited by Vhanja (May 5, 2016 3:18 pm)

Liberty · May 5, 2016 6:17 pm

As always, who knows what S4 will bring? But on the information we've been given so far, no, I don't see it. I don't see an abusive relationship there. There is one major, major incident when Mary shoots Sherlock, but either side of it, they seem to have warm regard ... there is no pattern of abuse or isolation. Once Mary is a client, there is no reason for Sherlock to feel threatened by her - quite the opposite.

RavenMorganLeigh · May 10, 2016 5:31 am

I think it fits in that Mary is holding Sherlock hostage by having John. Sherlock seems to be willing to put up with all kinds of ill treatment for John's sake.

besleybean · May 10, 2016 5:55 am

I just don't see it like that at all.
I think Sherlock recognises Mary genuinely loves John, in fact he says so at the wedding.
He knows Mary is important to John, so he accepts her.
But I think he genuinely likes her, he happily accepts her hug and kiss on the tarmac and says "That's my girl."

kgreen20 · May 10, 2016 3:35 pm

Yes, I've noticed that myself. Mary's hostage, Sherlock is not!

Schmiezi · May 10, 2016 3:42 pm

kgreen20 wrote:
Yes, I've noticed that myself. Mary's hostage, Sherlock is not!

How is Mary a hostage?

besleybean · May 10, 2016 4:56 pm

We've had real hostages in this show, including John with Moriarty...
Why are we making up others?

Schmiezi · May 10, 2016 5:26 pm

Well, nakahara explain rather well where she was coming from with the idea. :-)
For the others, I don't know.

kgreen20 · May 10, 2016 5:54 pm

Schmiezi wrote:
kgreen20 wrote:
Yes, I've noticed that myself. Mary's hostage, Sherlock is not!

How is Mary a hostage?

She's not, and neither is Sherlock her hostage, which is my point.

Schmiezi · May 10, 2016 6:39 pm

kgreen20 wrote:
Schmiezi wrote:
kgreen20 wrote:
Yes, I've noticed that myself. Mary's hostage, Sherlock is not!

How is Mary a hostage?
She's not, and neither is Sherlock her hostage, which is my point.

Oh, I see. Language problem. I misunderstood.

Last edited by Schmiezi (May 10, 2016 8:50 pm)

nakahara · May 11, 2016 11:04 am

kgreen20 wrote:
Yes, I've noticed that myself. Mary's hostage, Sherlock is not!

Isn´t he really?
Mary as John´s spouse holds a great influence over John. So inadvertedly, Sherlock is forced to be on good terms with her, constantly.... lest she can cause the breach between him and John (I´m not telling she neccessarily has a plan to do it, but it´s a possibility). Her conduct at the beginning of HLV already has traces of slight contempt for Sherlock and this is later confirmed in TAB where we see how Sherlock perceives Mary. She belittles him there calling him "mad" and "slow little brother".

And the breach between him and John would be disastrous for Sherlock, so he cannot allow it. Therefore he is sweet and nice to Mary although she shot him. On the other hand, he tries to shield her from John´s anger and from justice to show her that he´s useful to her, that he supports her, so that she finds him irreplacable in her effort to be in John´s favour again. But all that comes from fear and from grave neccessity rather from Sherlock genuinely liking Mary.

So Sherlock, to some extent, is Mary´s hostage, yes.

Vhanja · May 11, 2016 3:16 pm

I feel the wording in this thread is a bit too strong for what we are seeing in the show. I don't think neither "Stockholm syndrome", "abuser" nor "hostage" are terms that fit these things in the show. These are strong words with quite dramatic and horrible connotations that I don't think should be used lightly.

besleybean · May 11, 2016 4:16 pm

That was my point.
It feels a bit demeaning to John, the child and the other real hostages.

Liberty · May 11, 2016 6:10 pm

I actually think Sherlock's regard for Mary is genuine. I don't think he's forced into liking her because of John.

kgreen20 · May 11, 2016 8:09 pm

No, he's not, and I agree with Vhanja.

Last edited by kgreen20 (May 11, 2016 8:10 pm)