It'll certainly help me appreciate the show more.

Than before, perhaps?
 

And presumably John doesn't want this to happen.

Better than if I didn't empathise with a main character.
Nice to see people hanging upon my every word!

besleybean wrote:

Better than if I didn't empathise with a main character.

I understand what you mean. I also need main characters I can empathise with. What makes Sherlock such a good show is that you can do so no matter if you believe in Johnlock or not and no matter if you believe Sherlock is straight or gay.

I cannot for the live of me empathise with Mary, at least not after HLV. Maybe that is one reason I won't mind her leaving the show.

besleybean wrote:

I'm not married to her, so I don't have to empathise with her.
I also don't think she will be around long.
But we all have to accept our nations use these agents.
Ok she went freelance, she presumably believed she was doing right.
I understand her loving John.
I do feel she's turned over a new leaf.
I like she's a strong character.
It will be sad if her past catches up with her.
I don't wish death on anyone, other than those who seek it.

Why would Mary go to PRISON-- for the rest of her life-- for "doing right"???? 

It doesn't make sense to whitewash her when she's the one who said this. She's the one who hid her past to Not Go To Prison. 

And, isn't an assassin--- seeking death by definition? I mean, that's what they do-- they murder people. 
 

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (May 10, 2016 7:26 am)

nakahara wrote:

besleybean wrote:

I'm not married to her, so I don't have to empathise with her.

By the same logic we cannot empathise with anyone we see on TV. No one can claim she/he is married to a TV character.

besleybean wrote:

 But we all have to accept our nations use these agents.
Ok she went freelance, she presumably believed she was doing right.

It is equally possible she did it for money and self-agrandisement, the pain inflicted on others didn´t bother her at all. She confirms it herself by saying that John would not love her anymore. CAM confirms it by calling her bad girl and Mrs. psychopath. Those are not names given to people who do good.

besleybean wrote:

 I like she's a strong character.

Shooting best friends into their chest and lying, lying, lying to your husband (although such marriage is not even legal) is what establishes "strong character" these days?

(Stopping the banging of head against desk) 

Thank you , Nakahara!!!!!!

THANK YOU!!!!!

(Continues with banging head against desk)
 

Last edited by RavenMorganLeigh (May 10, 2016 7:34 am)

Very good points against "surgery" theory:

http://incurablylazydevil.tumblr.com/post/143850539953/softejohn-if-mary-planned-the-shooting

nakahara wrote:

Very good points against "surgery" theory:

http://incurablylazydevil.tumblr.com/post/143850539953/softejohn-if-mary-planned-the-shooting

I really would like to hear what supporters of the "it was surgery" theory say to this.

SusiGo wrote:

Since we sometimes compare other shows, especially those written by Steven Moffat, with Sherlock I would like to share thoughts I had on Doctor Who:So I finally watched the last River Song episode so far (”The Husbands of River Song”) and there is one thing I really have to get off my chest. Mary has been compared to River Song in order to redeem her past and shooting Sherlock. And this is so wrong. River Song is nothing like Mary. She is flawed and sometimes brutal and careless and lots of other things but she also has a wonderful humour and she is BAMF! in a good way and compassionate and above all very much in love with the Doctor and willing to sacrifice herself for him. I just realised that what I have described is basically the relationship between Sherlock and John. Well then … 

I agree .. there are some similarities, but I don't think Mary and River are the same.  (Which is good in a way - I wouldn't particularly like to see River transplanted into Sherlock).  Also, I think the two shootings are handled differently.   But if it is similar to the relationship between John and Sherlock, you made me wonder if there might be a similar dramatic twist there ... probably not one of them shooting the other, because it would be too similar to HLV, but something that makes one appear to harm the other, one perhaps doubt the other (they never seem to doubt each other).  I don't think their relationship is really tested in the ACD stories (I haven't read them all), but I could see Moftiss doing it.  I don't know if I want that or not! 

I think the companion relationship in Doctor Who probably has more similarities to the Sherlock/John than River relationship has - "there's always two of us", etc., whereas the unique thing about the River relationship is that they aren't together - they keep meeting at different points in their timelines so their relationship develops in opposite directions. 

Apart from in "Husbands" - which I thought was lovely!