besleybean wrote:

She's given up her past.
If Moriarty did the same, I would forgive him too.

We've also not had any concrete proof of this.
And stopping wrong behavior is not the equal of redemption.  There must be positive action to make up for past sins.

Mattlocked wrote:

I'm not sure if I would stand by hubby to the bitter end if I would notice today that he was a serial killer in the past....

@nakahara "If the damage was not done to him personally, by lying or otherwise, then lions can eat his friends for all he cares."  I don't like what I read, but maybe you are right.
Or.... sarcasm?

 
Unfortunately, as written in the show (so far) that's what we're being shown. Sigh.

I don't think the latter at all.
I think John was genuinely distraught at Mary shooting John.
But he seems to have managed to get over it and move on quicker than possibly some others.

Yes, of course he cares deeply at the time.  But later, it's not what he's angry at Mary about, and not (I think) what he is forgiving when he later forgives her. 

And yet in TRF, when chief inspector called Sherlock a vigilante type, John smashed his face althrough the issue was between Sherlock and the police exclusively - John was not mentioned at all by them, nor was he an insulted party.... the insult was in words only, Sherlock was not physically hurt by them...

...and suddenly, two episodes later, John considers the actual physical harm done to Sherlock as something that doesn´t concern him? The harm caused by his wife is something so insignificant, he leaves her to sort it out with Sherlock on her own? Victims of violence should be sent to people who beat them/raped them/injured them/murdered them so that they could reconcile on their own, according to John? Very interesting philosophy - but not the one I can relate to.

nakahara wrote:

And yet in TRF, when chief inspector called Sherlock a vigilante type, John smashed his face althrough the issue was between Sherlock and the police exclusively - John was not mentioned at all by them, nor was he an insulted party.... the insult was in words only, Sherlock was not physically hurt by them...

...and suddenly, two episodes later, John considers the actual physical harm done to Sherlock as something that doesn´t concern him? The harm caused by his wife is something so insignificant, he leaves her to sort it out with Sherlock on her own? Victims of violence should be sent to people who beat them/raped them/injured them/murdered them so that they could reconcile on their own, according to John? Very interesting philosophy - but not the one I can relate to.

I think you jump to way to strong conclusions. There is nothing in the show that says that John thinks victims of violence should be sent to people who abused them to reconcile on their own? How on earth do you manage to interpret something like that? I don't get it at all. 
 

Yeah, in this instance I think Sherlock's ability to - more or less - turn of sentiment in some cases actually helped him. When he found a rational explanation for Mary's behaviour, he accepted it. Just like being tricked, drugged and beaten by Irene only managed to intrigue him. And he thought John was overreacting and didn't understand how John wasn't happy to see him after two years.

I don't think Sherlock works like we - and John - do on these things. 

Because if Sherlock has forgiven her - to the point that he actively encourage John to reconcile with her - then why shouldn't John? Sherlock is the one who has the biggest reason to be angry at Mary for the shooting, yet he isn't. 

Of course there is the chance that neither Sherlock nor John have forgiven Mary anything and that they are working together behind the scenes against her. However, I would be a tad disappointed if that happens, simply becuase there is no setup for it in HLV. We don't get any hint that this is the case, and so it would be a reveal out of nowhere.

Yes, in real life, I think that the chance of the person who gets shot, and the best friend of said person, easily forgiving the girlfriend for the shooting would be like nil. As it should be. But this is again for me an example of tv reality, which is different from the real reality. (Just as Sherlock's physical and mental aftermath of the torture in Serbia - and Lord only knows what else - was brushed away within minutes and never heard from again).

Yes . I think Sherlock tried to act in the way he thought was best for everyone logically and turn off the hurt and betrayal he felt , but it won't necessarily work because John is even more sentimental.  Thats likely why John took so long to try and deal with Mary .
I think John's  ( and Sherlocks ) going to be snarky and angry with Mary which will just make Mary more defensive and unapologetic , probably be quite funny to watch until Marys departue 

Liberty wrote:

Irene's motives were self-defence/self-preservation which I think he finds perfectly understable - and I suppose that in both cases the women were trying to prevent him doing something that would probably lead to their secrets being revealed and to their deaths, so I suppose it's quite a good parallel (even if Irene's violence was very minimal compared to Mary's!).  Yes, I think he has the detachment to see why they chose those courses of actions and not take it personally.  John on the other hand, takes things very personally, I think - he's seeing things in terms of how he is affected.  The flipside of that is that he doesn't seem to be blaming people for things that don't affect him.

I'm leaning more recently towards Sherlock feeling quite a strong connection to Mary, though ... the more I think of it, the more things make sense if you imagine him really, really caring for her (and not in that way! I would not like them to go down that route!). 
 

Yes, I agree with your views on Sherlock and John here. Sherlock is able to detach himself and not take it personally - and thus doens't quite understand it when other people DO take it personally and are unable to detach themselves and see the logic behind the action (John).

Also, I agree with you that I think Sherlock really likes Mary. Because they are quite similar - intelligent, cold (when need to be) calculating, arrogant, logical. And they both care deeply for John.

Or so I read what I've seen on screen so far. Things might change - perhaps there is that hidden agenda from Sherlock and John towards Mary. Or perhaps Mary has been lying all along, works for Moriarty and doesn't feel a thing for John. But I will leave that for future seasons.