BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Mary

SusiGo · April 30, 2016 5:10 pm

Yes to all that. And once again - Mary could not shoot Sherlock because then the show named "Sherlock" would have been over. They went as far as humanly possible to show that she did not care for his life without leaving him actually dead.

besleybean · April 30, 2016 5:14 pm

So you think John hasn't forgiven her for that?

Schmiezi · April 30, 2016 5:19 pm

besleybean wrote:
So you think John hasn't forgiven her for that?

That has nothing to do with Mary's motive.

besleybean · April 30, 2016 5:21 pm

But does Mary's motive have anything to do with John's feelings for her?

tonnaree · April 30, 2016 5:24 pm

besleybean wrote:
But does Mary's motive have anything to do with John's feelings for her?

They might if he actually knew what her motives were.

besleybean · April 30, 2016 5:34 pm

I would have thought her being a former assassin was bad enough.

Schmiezi · April 30, 2016 5:44 pm

besleybean wrote:
I would have thought her being a former assassin was bad enough.

Sorry, I don't think I understand what you are implying here.

Do you mean that the fact that she is / was assassin is so bad that in relation to that it does not matter why she lied to John and shot Sherlock?

tonnaree · April 30, 2016 5:46 pm

Being a former assassin is bad.
Shooting his best friend is worse.
I'm still waiting for Mary to defend herself on that.

besleybean · April 30, 2016 5:48 pm

Well, it doesn't matter what I think.
We'll need to see what the team do with this...if anything.
At the moment, I'm happy John seems to have forgiven Mary and Sherlock, too.
They are after all going out on jolly japes together.

Schmiezi · April 30, 2016 5:51 pm

Regardless of whether John has forgiven her or not on-screen, I have not. Mainly for two reasons:
(1) her motive is vety egoistic
(2) she doesn't even try to apologize.

besleybean · April 30, 2016 5:54 pm

I don't fully understand where we are going with this.
I get it, if you don't like a character and maybe you are looking forward to her demise.
But this may not stop John being totally devastated.

Harriet · April 30, 2016 5:57 pm

Or John will be very relieved.

besleybean · April 30, 2016 5:58 pm

You really think so?
I disagree.

Schmiezi · April 30, 2016 6:03 pm

Well, I thought this thread was about Mary, not about John's feelings for her.

besleybean · April 30, 2016 6:05 pm

Well I personally consider her effect on him to be quite important, after all, he is the joint lead in the show.

Schmiezi · April 30, 2016 6:06 pm

I agree. Still, you don't have to know what he think of her in order to judge her motives.

Edit: typo

Last edited by Schmiezi (April 30, 2016 6:08 pm)

besleybean · April 30, 2016 6:10 pm

Well I don't really want to go in circles on this, but again, obviously you can think what you like on Mary.
But at some juncture we may have to acknowledge that she was very important to John.

SusiGo · April 30, 2016 6:11 pm

I think we cannot use John's feelings to explain what Mary does to Sherlock. Shooting your husband's best friend because your husband loves you and you do not want to lose him is not really a justification, is it?
I agree that so far we do not know where the writers are going with it. But I think they have their reasons for giving us so little information about Mary and nothing to redeem her. No regrets, no explanations, no apologies, nothing. I assume that having Sherlock beg for John's forgiveness again and again while Mary not once says as much as "sorry" is not just coincidence.

The fact that she is important to John does not justify her actions.

Last edited by SusiGo (April 30, 2016 6:12 pm)

Schmiezi · April 30, 2016 6:11 pm

besleybean wrote:
Well I don't really want to go in circles on this, but again, obviously you can think what you like on Mary.
But at some juncture we may have to acknowledge that she was very important to John.

Well, then just don't go in circles. What do you personally think of Mary's motives?

besleybean · April 30, 2016 6:16 pm

I think she had a bad start in life...for whatever reason. She met John(even if she was planted there) and genuinely fell in love with him. She will stop at nothing to keep him.
She made an error with Sherlock, she should have gone to him for help.
She should have been left to do away with CAM.
Sherlock was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
But I accept Sherlock's explanation of why Mary shot him and in what way.
He and John have got over it and moved on, so have I.