BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.


You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?



April 12, 2016 12:42 pm  #3121


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

But wouldn't all of this mean that Sherlock was wrong about even more things in the first nine episodes than some of us have suspected already? It would implicate that he didn't get Moriarty right, he didn't get Mary right and that he didn't get CAM right, either.
Don't get me wrong, I love twists, but what I don't like is when they 1.) get too complicated so that you basically can only understand a whole show if you basically re-watch it from the end, and 2.) turn the hero of the show into a dumbo. And this Moriarty-Mary-Magnussen-Mycroft-theory (yes, there is Mycroft as well, if he is somehow involved then Aherlock would have been wrong about his own brother, too) might turn Sherlock into just that: a dumbo.

On the other hand, what I like about this idea is that, if they're doing it right, it would literally give us the downfall of a genius. Sherlock would certainly break if he had to admit to himself that he was fooled so many times by various people, among them people he (seemingly) trusted. The only person (I'm exaggerating here, I know) who didn't betray him would be: John. And it would be the two of them against the rest of the world again.
 


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 12, 2016 12:47 pm  #3122


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I do not think that they are all involved in the same scheme, that would be a bit too much. And you would really wonder why Sherlock did not get it earlier. This, btw, is one thing that would point at Mycroft - it is Canon that Mycroft is cleverer than Sherlock. On the other hand Sherlock fooled him with Irene. One may go on speculating but for me it comes down to this: 

There are connections we do not know so far and that reach deep into the past. And this is going to be the stuff Sherlock and John have to deal with in series 4/5. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 12, 2016 1:09 pm  #3123


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SusiGo wrote:

I do not think that they are all involved in the same scheme, that would be a bit too much. And you would really wonder why Sherlock did not get it earlier. This, btw, is one thing that would point at Mycroft - it is Canon that Mycroft is cleverer than Sherlock. On the other hand Sherlock fooled him with Irene. One may go on speculating but for me it comes down to this: 

There are connections we do not know so far and that reach deep into the past. And this is going to be the stuff Sherlock and John have to deal with in series 4/5. 

We have to go deeper!  Deeper than we've ever gone before!!!


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

April 12, 2016 1:15 pm  #3124


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Where no Consulting Detective and his Blogger have gone before.


___________________________________________________
"Am I the current King of England?

"I see no shame in having an unhealthy obsession with something." - David Tennant
"We did observe." - David Tennant in "Richard II"

 
 

April 12, 2016 1:36 pm  #3125


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

And may they live long and prosper. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 12, 2016 1:48 pm  #3126


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SolarSystem wrote:

Where no Consulting Detective and his Blogger have gone before.

"boldly go where no ..." 
 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 12, 2016 4:23 pm  #3127


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Well other people are having fun, so I'm going to make a shallow post: I would definitely take Mary or anybody else being an accomplice of Moriarty's...basically anything that means I get to see more Andrew- flashback or otherwise!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

April 12, 2016 5:17 pm  #3128


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

You are allowed to be shallow any time you wish BB. 
Can't stay in the deep end all the time.  You'd drown.  


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

April 12, 2016 5:22 pm  #3129


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

God don't.
I am totally petrified of water!


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

April 14, 2016 12:17 pm  #3130


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

http://archipelagoarchaea.tumblr.com/post/92372390998/the-lie-of-his-last-vow
We've often discussed if anything of Mary's back story in HLV is to be taken at face value or not. I found this interesting meta.

Last edited by mrshouse (April 14, 2016 12:19 pm)


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 14, 2016 12:37 pm  #3131


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

This is a long and interesting meta. Matter-of-fact, plausible with and without Johnlock, thorough - still a rewarding read which TAB has changed not in the least. 

Last edited by SusiGo (April 14, 2016 12:37 pm)


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 14, 2016 3:44 pm  #3132


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Well John and Mary remain married and I expect that will be until death do them part...though that maybe in S4.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

April 14, 2016 4:03 pm  #3133


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SusiGo wrote:

This is a long and interesting meta. Matter-of-fact, plausible with and without Johnlock, thorough - still a rewarding read which TAB has changed not in the least. 

That was one of the best metas I have ever read.  Extremely well stated. 


----------------------------------------------------------------------
Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ.  
Honorary German  
"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not".
 -Vaclav Havel 
"Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong."   Melissa Ethridge

I ship it harder than Mrs. Hudson.
    
 
 

April 14, 2016 4:16 pm  #3134


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I still need to read it. 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 14, 2016 4:26 pm  #3135


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

And as Susi already said, it does not argue with Johnlock. I like that. I like those two issues seperated. What doesn't sit right with Mary has to be diskussed for itself.
Cross, Susi

Last edited by mrshouse (April 14, 2016 4:27 pm)


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 14, 2016 4:26 pm  #3136


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

This meta writer is able to put things in words I have always felt and found difficult to say. And it shows that even without Johnlock a narrative with a redeemed Mary does not make any sense. I think it says something like: In the show there is no room for Sherlock, John, Mary, and a baby. Which is true. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 14, 2016 4:31 pm  #3137


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Amen.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 14, 2016 4:48 pm  #3138


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I think to a certain extent I can agree with that, though maybe not for the same reasons...
I could live with Mary being kept in the show, but I think canonically she has to go.
My only addition to that would be to once again assert, we will see a devastated John at losing the love of his life.
 


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

April 14, 2016 4:50 pm  #3139


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Only if she died as a loving wife and mother. If she were a villain, he might feel different. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 14, 2016 4:51 pm  #3140


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I think it'll be the former.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

Board footera

 

Powered by Boardhost. Create a Free Forum