BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012.
- besleybean
- Threatened Knighthood
Offline 
- From: Carnoustie, Angus, Scotland.
- Registered: October 4, 2012
- Posts: 21,362
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
I really don't think after 3 series and a special that we can make judgement on this, yet.
Plus, she is the love of John's life and has an amazing back story.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Vhanja
- One More Miracle
Offline
- From: Sandnes, Norway
- Registered: December 11, 2014
- Posts: 6,607
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
I don't think we can make judgement yet on whether or not Mary is the love of John's life either. Not talking about Johnlock, but that it's too early to know for sure if John has really forgiven her and if he still loves her. He didn't look particularly happy at the reconciliation scene and we haven't seen a single happy scene between them after that to establish that things are great between them.
That might come, of course. Or it might not. We just don't know yet.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
Team Hudders!
- Vhanja
- One More Miracle
Offline
- From: Sandnes, Norway
- Registered: December 11, 2014
- Posts: 6,607
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Oh, and as for character development, I think Molly has had more of that than Mary.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
Team Hudders!
- mrshouse
- Stayin' Alive
Offline
- Registered: January 16, 2014
- Posts: 3,802
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Vhanja wrote:
I don't think we can make judgement yet on whether or not Mary is the love of John's life either. Not talking about Johnlock, but that it's too early to know for sure if John has really forgiven her and if he still loves her. He didn't look particularly happy at the reconciliation scene and we haven't seen a single happy scene between them after that to establish that things are great between them.
That might come, of course. Or it might not. We just don't know yet.
I agree with this.
------------------------------------------------------------
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.
"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you" - Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.
- Harriet
- Most Human Human Being
Offline
- From: 110A Piccadilly
- Registered: August 24, 2012
- Posts: 9,887
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
I'd say John has resigned himself to being with Mary. Since I agree with
He didn't look particularly happy at the reconciliation scene and we haven't seen a single happy scene between them after that to establish that things are great between them.
Last edited by Harriet (April 10, 2016 6:33 pm)
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock. Independent OSAJ Affiliate
... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
- SusiGo
- The game is never over (moderator)
Offline
- From: Germany
- Registered: June 5, 2012
- Posts: 22,965
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Tbh, so far I have not seen any character development in Mary, just a surprising reveal. This is not a development. After four episodes we know next to nothing about her.
------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes
"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)
“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)
- Vhanja
- One More Miracle
Offline
- From: Sandnes, Norway
- Registered: December 11, 2014
- Posts: 6,607
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Tbh, so far I have not seen any character development in Mary, just a surprising reveal. This is not a development. After four episodes we know next to nothing about her.
I agree with this.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
Team Hudders!
- Harriet
- Most Human Human Being
Offline
- From: 110A Piccadilly
- Registered: August 24, 2012
- Posts: 9,887
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
I agree.
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock. Independent OSAJ Affiliate
... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
- besleybean
- Threatened Knighthood
Offline
- From: Carnoustie, Angus, Scotland.
- Registered: October 4, 2012
- Posts: 21,362
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Okay, so now we have: she's in the show too much AND ...
But we've seen no development...
But then presumably you wouldn't want her in the show more to show any development?
I'm not sure how much John has developed after 3 series and a special.
I certainly agree on Molly: her first scene in TRF is(apart from Sherlock)the most dramatic character development I have seen.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Vhanja
- One More Miracle
Offline
- From: Sandnes, Norway
- Registered: December 11, 2014
- Posts: 6,607
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
No, I wouldn't want her in the show to see the development. But if they decide to keep her on for a longer period of time, than I think they should show us some more backstory and development.
And, yes, I would LOVE more John development as well! I think biggest development we've seen for John is that he went from "Fantastic!" to "Gee, not again..." concerning Sherlock's deductions.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
Team Hudders!
- besleybean
- Threatened Knighthood
Offline
- From: Carnoustie, Angus, Scotland.
- Registered: October 4, 2012
- Posts: 21,362
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
This is true and at least he hugged him! 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Vhanja
- One More Miracle
Offline
- From: Sandnes, Norway
- Registered: December 11, 2014
- Posts: 6,607
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Oh, yes, there is the hug as well.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
Team Hudders!
- besleybean
- Threatened Knighthood
Offline
- From: Carnoustie, Angus, Scotland.
- Registered: October 4, 2012
- Posts: 21,362
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Really, am I the only person on this forum that every time I see this scene, I shout at the TV: 3 bloody series, that's how long we had to wait for that damn hug...Mr Gatiss and Mr Moffat?!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Vhanja
- One More Miracle
Offline
- From: Sandnes, Norway
- Registered: December 11, 2014
- Posts: 6,607
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Haha, I follow these two awesome girls on YouTube who have done "Drunk Reaction"-videoes to S3. And that is their exact words when that scene came up: "We've wated three years for that damn hug". 
Aaaanyway, getting quite OT here. Sorry about that... 
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
Team Hudders!
- besleybean
- Threatened Knighthood
Offline
- From: Carnoustie, Angus, Scotland.
- Registered: October 4, 2012
- Posts: 21,362
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
( Yeah sorry, my fault...I think I may actually use a word stronger than 'bloody', when I think about it!)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Vhanja
- One More Miracle
Offline
- From: Sandnes, Norway
- Registered: December 11, 2014
- Posts: 6,607
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
(And they used a stronger word than "damn" as well).
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings
Team Hudders!
- besleybean
- Threatened Knighthood
Offline
- From: Carnoustie, Angus, Scotland.
- Registered: October 4, 2012
- Posts: 21,362
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- stoertebeker
- British Government
Offline
- From: Germany, Hamburg
- Registered: April 24, 2013
- Posts: 777
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Tbh, so far I have not seen any character development in Mary, just a surprising reveal. This is not a development. After four episodes we know next to nothing about her.
How much character development did we get from Molly, Lestrade or Mrs. Hudson in the 10 episodes so far? Mary is still a background character. It is a bit unfair IMO to demand character development when these character is part of the main story in only one episode (HLV).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is a place for people like you, the desperate, the terrified. The ones with nowhere else to run."
"What place?"
"221B Baker Street."
- Harriet
- Most Human Human Being
Offline
- From: 110A Piccadilly
- Registered: August 24, 2012
- Posts: 9,887
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
Actually, we see quite some character development from Molly. The way she deals with Sherlock changed a lot.
But about Mary, it wasn't a demand, it's simply an observation that her character didn't undergo much development.
Last edited by Harriet (April 10, 2016 10:20 pm)
Eventually everyone will support Johnlock. Independent OSAJ Affiliate
... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
- kgreen20
- Consulting Criminal
Offline
- From: Oklahoma, USA
- Registered: July 29, 2015
- Posts: 828
Re: Mary – the subject of discussion
...have her own moral compass
I think here is a fundamental difference between her and the boys. Her moral compass is different. She only does things that are good for her while John and Sherlock do things, also wrong things, that are good for the other one.
I disagree. That is, the moral compass might be different, but she does think that benefits others as well. ("That is why there are people like me"). Killing for the "greater good". She also helped the crying neighbour while John just stood in the doorway not letting her in.
And she helped Sherlock to save John's life when he was in that bonfire.
