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April 10, 2016 8:07 am  #2981


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Alright, alright, calm down, ladies.
I still think costumes are part of story telling but what a feedback....
Anyway, back to topic.


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Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 10, 2016 8:21 am  #2982


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I think what Mary wore at the restaurant when her character was properly introduced hinted strongly at her being not good. Her entire entrance is like that of a femme fatal from the film noir, with her being filmed from behind and all that. The rather old-fashioned dress she wears emphazises that strongly.

Last edited by Schmiezi (April 10, 2016 8:35 am)


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I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

April 10, 2016 8:24 am  #2983


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

We see her at the grave, first.
The widow's outfit was interesting in TAB.


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April 10, 2016 8:32 am  #2984


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Schmiezi, I agree.
So....do we discuss costumes?
Mods?


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 10, 2016 8:34 am  #2985


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Why should we not discuss costumes? They are part of the characterisation.


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 10, 2016 8:36 am  #2986


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

besleybean wrote:

We see her at the grave, first.

See my edit.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I still believe that love conquers all!

     

"Quick, man, if you love me."
 

April 10, 2016 8:37 am  #2987


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Well, I just wondered. But I think so too.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 10, 2016 8:47 am  #2988


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

And I believe her ugly fashion style is deliberately done by the team, just like everything else in the whole show. It's simply something they chose to tell us about her character.

Last edited by Harriet (April 10, 2016 9:06 am)


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 10, 2016 9:08 am  #2989


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I'm all for discussing the costume choices, but can we get a bit more specific than "ugly fashion style"? That very much comes down to one's own preferences.

For example the black dress in TAB. Do you think that was a deliberate call-back to the assassin outfit (as far as I can remember that was the only other time that we saw Mary all in black, or am I mistaken?) ? I certainly felt so, especially in connection with the lines that her perfume spells "disaster" or "insight", depending on weather you recognize it or not. I thought they where letting us know from the beginning that Victorian Mary, too, is not what she seems on the surface.


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April 10, 2016 9:18 am  #2990


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Yes, I think it was a reference to the assassin outfit, especially with the perfume being involved.   I personally feel that when Mary points at Lestrade, it looks a little like Mary pointing a gun at Sherlock (it's a slightly odd way to dismiss somebody, so I do wonder if the similarity is deliberate.  (I also wonder if Sherlock is doing a little bit of there of allowing himself to deduce Mary at that point, something he failed to do in real life - he mistook her for somebody else). 

Although presumably she's pointing at the door, rather than LeStrade).  I think it's also a reference to the "bride" - mourning dress meaning the end of the marriage (by death) rather than beginning, and to the fact that both costumes allow a woman to be in disguise (the veils). 

And yes, Mary not being what she seems on the surface (which she isn't in either real life or TAB).

 

April 10, 2016 9:40 am  #2991


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

My take on the costumes: "ugly" is a highly subjective term but I think we can agree that Mary's outward appearance changes over the episodes and that the costumes are used to highlight certain aspects of her character:

- the chummy girlfriend at grave, knit wool hat and coat 
- the lovely femme fatale in the evening dress with the 1930s hairstyle
- the professional woman in the surgery
- the bride all in white, very traditional outfit
- the blouse with the up and down thumbs 
- the assassin all in black combat gear
- the mother-to-be with blotchy face and Christmassy outfit 
- the red coat on the tarmac, a strange spot of colour in otherwise drab and sad surroundings
- the black "widow" outfit in TAB

I think this is a basis on which costumes can be discussed. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 10, 2016 9:43 am  #2992


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

All agree, Susi. It was of course just meant for a start, which worked. And I'd like to add the turn-ups of her jeans.


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 10, 2016 9:48 am  #2993


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

She was back to normal, homely Mum-to-be, when we last saw her.


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http://professorfangirl.tumblr.com/post/105838327464/heres-an-outtake-of-mark-gatiss-on-the
 

April 10, 2016 9:50 am  #2994


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

I thought she was in the red coat and arguing with John at the grave?


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 10, 2016 9:51 am  #2995


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

And the baby was not mentioned once in the whole of TAB. 


------------------------------
"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)



 
 

April 10, 2016 10:30 am  #2996


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

While when we last saw John, he was homely with Sherlock 


Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.   Independent OSAJ Affiliate

... but there may be some new players now. It’s okay. The East Wind takes us all in the end.
 

April 10, 2016 10:38 am  #2997


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Harriet wrote:

All agree, Susi. It was of course just meant for a start, which worked. And I'd like to add the turn-ups of her jeans.

What about them?


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
     Thread Starter
 

April 10, 2016 10:41 am  #2998


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

SusiGo wrote:

My take on the costumes: "ugly" is a highly subjective term but I think we can agree that Mary's outward appearance changes over the episodes and that the costumes are used to highlight certain aspects of her character:

- the chummy girlfriend at grave, knit wool hat and coat 
- the lovely femme fatale in the evening dress with the 1930s hairstyle
- the professional woman in the surgery
- the bride all in white, very traditional outfit
- the blouse with the up and down thumbs 
- the assassin all in black combat gear
- the mother-to-be with blotchy face and Christmassy outfit 
- the red coat on the tarmac, a strange spot of colour in otherwise drab and sad surroundings
- the black "widow" outfit in TAB

I think this is a basis on which costumes can be discussed. 

The ones that stand out for me are mainly the red coat and the two black outfits. The coat because it really stands out on the tarmac in HLV and the two black ones because of the disguise elements of them.
 


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We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
     Thread Starter
 

April 10, 2016 10:46 am  #2999


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

Lola Red wrote:

Harriet wrote:

All agree, Susi. It was of course just meant for a start, which worked. And I'd like to add the turn-ups of her jeans.

What about them?

 
There's the one scene where Sherlock watches crap telly und yells at the screen that the man can't be the father because of his turned up jeans. I think it's TGG.


------------------------------------------------------------

Eventually everyone will support Johnlock.


"If you're not reading the subtext then hell mend you"  -  Steven Moffat
"Love conquers all" Benedict Cumberbatch on Sherlock's and John's relationship
"This is a show about a detective, his best friend, his wife, their baby and their dog" - Nobody. Ever.

 

April 10, 2016 10:56 am  #3000


Re: Mary – the subject of discussion

mrshouse wrote:

Lola Red wrote:

Harriet wrote:

All agree, Susi. It was of course just meant for a start, which worked. And I'd like to add the turn-ups of her jeans.

What about them?

 
There's the one scene where Sherlock watches crap telly und yells at the screen that the man can't be the father because of his turned up jeans. I think it's TGG.

I remember that. But it does not answer my question. In which scene was there anything remarkable about the turn-ups of Mary's jeans? And what would that imply? Since Harriet wanted to discuss the costumes, I assumed that she saw something that she wanted to share. 
 


****************************************************************************************************************************************
We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.    
     Thread Starter
 

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