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The whole thing is kind of funny and embarrassing, and we've mostly been there in some way (have tried to ask somebody out, or been asked out). I think the conversation at Angelo's is partly humour too in a similar way - the humour coming from the social situations and misunderstandings. It's that awkward situation of asking somebody if they have a partner of a pariticular sex, then realising you might have got their orientation wrong ... then having to show that you're not homophobic ... then having that interpreted as asking them out. It's funny. I think rather embarrassing situations are often funny, and I'm not sure why. And of course, when I try to explain what's funny about it, it doesn't work!
Another example on a different theme is the incident when Sherlock and the graffiti artist run off, leaving with John with the can - he's arrested and is about to get an ASBO. The videos gave a Johnlock interpretation to that, but again, I think a major part of it is just humour. It's a schoolboy think to run off and leave somebody to get into trouble like that. The childishness is funny, and the idea of a GP ending up with an ASBO for graffitting is funny. (Of course the fact that the scenes are funny doesn't rule out there being other meanings as well ... but there were so many times when it felt as if the humour was being missed altogether, and if you take that away the scenes can look very different).
Last edited by Liberty (April 6, 2016 6:54 pm)
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I agree, many scenes are written to be funny, not to be interpreted too much. That doesn't go just for Johnlock - I personally severly dislike the scene "Mary is taking me home" in TAB, as I don't see how bossing a man around is any better than bossing a woman around. I could go into a long feminism rant about it, but at the end of the day it's two seconds of humour. It's meant to be funny, not to write a thesis on it on feminism.
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I do not think the scene is meant to be funny, or just on the surface. This is how Sherlock truly sees Mary. We get insight into his thinking in TAB, we are literally inside his head, and the way Mary is presented throughout the episode is very different from what we got in the "real" scenes. No hugs or smiles or "Give my love to Mary" here.
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I guess we'll just have to wait and see whether that was more than just a joke.
I've seen all episodes of the TJLC series now (the ones that are out so far), and I was quite interested in the one about sexual imagery as there are quite a bit of that in the show. So I was a bit disappointed when the video mentioned a whole bunch of scenes that to me doesn't have an inch of sexuality hints in them at all. It read to me a bit like giggly teenagers who will think "sex" with just about anything.
And I don't think it's necessary - there are already quite a lot of sexual imagery in the series, there is no reason to overanalyze every little thing. That just fuels the idea that Johnlockers are in it for the sex. (However, I am willing to agree to being open about Sherlock perhaps having a military kink. I don't think that was intented by the writers, but if they wanted to do something that was subtle enough for the casual viewer to miss, but clear enough to not need overanalysing to get - this is the way to do it).
However, to not come across as only being negative, there are a few interesting bits in the series, and I found most of them to be in the very first episode. Talking about early interviews with the cast and crew, especially one where Ben said he was intrigued by "where the relationship with Sherlock and John were going" in this series.
That caught my interest because we already know about Sherlock and John being the best of friends, that can't be something Ben would find intriguing og particular interesting as that is already established and is the basis for the entire series/books/canon.
However, I won't say for sure the only other option is romance - perhaps he is talking about the journey, and Moffat talking them both through things in a way that is different (more dramatic?) then what has ever been done before? (As far as I can tell, we've never had a renunion scene like that before in other adaptations?)
This is not a criticism of Rebekah, btw. She does a great job with these videoes, and explains most of it really well. I am only talking about the ideas and how I think most of it is prone to oeveranalyzing. But, as mentioned before, that is understandable and seem to happen with fandoms that have to wait.
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I really think the team have made it quite clear their views on the boys and relationships and indeed have shown them quite clearly for 3 seasons now. They basically show how they see the Canon.
So I do not think we are ever going to see (any more)romance for Sherlock(they've done that) and only possibly more women for John, if Mary goes.
Canon makes clear Mary was the love of Watson's life, I cannot see the BBC team deviating from that.
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One should imagine ACD would have kept Mary in the stories instead of disposing of her with one sentence if she truly had been the love of Watson's life. And maybe she would have remembered her husband's name as well. And maybe the BBC team had not turned her into a killer. Just saying.
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I don't think Mofftiss in general have a problem with deviating from canon, they've done that several times already. (Mary is a very different character in BBC than in ACD, and she never got pregnant in the books as far as I know).
However, I personally believe that if they wanted to show a relationsihp growing between Sherlock and John, they would have done it a bit more obvious. I don't think this is the type of show where analysing colours and drinks are the way to go to find out what's going to happen. This isn't David Lynch, it's made for commercial and popular TV.
Whenever I've seen any movie/tv-show where there is an element of "will they or won't they" I have always seen much more of an obvious romantic interest between the two than I do here. I mean... it's obvious that Sherlock and John love each other. It's obvious that they are the most important person in each other's life. But I don't think it's obvious that there is a romantic/sexual attraction between them.
Then again, it depends on how long they plan this series to be. Perhaps S1-3 was just laying the groundwork, and then the change to a more romantic/sexual interest will gradually develop from S4 on and culminate in a latter season? I don't know.
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We'll soon know.
But some people seem to have been disappointed by S3 in a way I never was.
My fave series.
TAB was the icing on the cake.
You'd think in a personal mind palace anything could have been...but it seemed to me to more or less confirm everything in the previous 3 seasons.
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I wasn't disappointed in S3 either. In a way, I would prefer Sherlock and John staying together in 221B without including marriage and pregnancy. Then again, if all seasons were the same, it woulc easily become stagnant and reptitive. As long as that is where the two of them end up, I'm happy.
I do agree that TAB was a perfect opportunity to show a romantic/sexual attraction from Sherlock to John. I saw TAB with Johnlock in mind, actually hoping there would be some. And even in that frame of mind, I saw very little.
But as long as the series isn't over, I don't want to draw any big conclusions on anything. We just don't know yet.
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I look forward to more of the same.
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*dashes through thread tossing rainbow confetti*
TAB was the gayest thing ever.
Starting with "Mrs. Hudson! There is a woman in my sitting room!"
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But it was supposed to be deep inside Sherlock's mind, and yet we didn't see Johnlock. Which does make you wonder ... how would they explain that if they ever tried to claim that it had been there all along? I think they could start a romance in S4/5 (although I doubt it, because of what Mark said at Mumbai), but I don't think they could treat it as if it has being going on all along (whether acted on or not). I know Johnlockers and TJLCers have seen clues all along, but the general audience hasn't. If they want us to buy into a romance they've got to show us it, they've got to tell us what's going on. And they haven't.
I'm not the ACD expert that some of you are, so I never like to weigh in on his intentions, but I've got the impression from somewhere that he kind of made a mistake with Mary - it was a nice little romance in a particular story, but it landed him with a married Watson when he really wanted to write stories about these two guys together (whether as friends or lovers, either way!). With Irene, it was very clear that it was a one-off story about one woman, and that it wouldn't be following through to other stories - which is why I don't really expect or want to see Irene back again (I felt ASIB had a similar "one-off" feel).
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I agree. I think that if they wanted to build a romance, they would make it clearer. Not necessarily spell it out, but make it so that it became more a "will they or won't they". I don't think they would spend a lot of time putting clues in numbers, food, drinks and color coding, but more in dialogue, looks and scenes that would spell it out clearer that there were some kind of romantic/sexual interest.
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I agree on Irene.
What is clear(to me) in Canon and in BBC Sherlock, is that Mary is the love of John's life.
So I just don't know where they'll go with him, if she leaves the series.
And btw, if I'm not allowed any more Jim, then I don't want any more Mary- so there!
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Well, I'm still put out that there's no more Magnussen. But do agree that they have chosen to extend Mary beyond one episode, so she obviously means something different in Sherlock. And because they went the way of starting her story after the proposal instead of stopping it with the proposal, she could theoretically go on indefinitely! I have been assuming she'll be killed off in S4, but it's not a given.
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I don't think it's clear anymore that Mary is the love of John's life.
- I think it's clear that John had romantic feelings for Mary before the HLV reveal.
- I think it's clear that John isn't happy with his newly-wed life without Sherlock
- I think it's clear that John wants to forgive and try to live on with Mary after HLV, but after the shot we don't see any scenes between John and Mary that show any of the happiness they shared before the shot (for instance, the bathromm scene in TEH).
I think that if Sherlock had never come back and Mary had never been revelead to be an assassin, I think John would've been as happy with Mary as he could be without Sherlock in his life. As for what he feels for Mary now, and how their marriage will be, I don't think we know enough yet to say anything for certain. I am very excited to see what will happen with John and Mary in S4 because of all this.
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Of course the tragedy would be their being totally happy and then she gets bumped off...that's kind of how I see it now.
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I cannot for the life of me imagine them being totally happy. As Vhanja said, after TSoT we do not get a single moment of happiness between them. This also goes for the whole of TAB. And if we believe the two modern scenes to be real, they do not even speak with each other. Not a single word.
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Why should they? They are happy enough, even without talking, or kissing, or smiling at each other
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Right. True love does not need words.