Yes to all this. And the funny thing is that for me she is far more interesting a villain than anything  else.

besleybean wrote:

I don't understand why people see her as a villain, when Sherlock and John don't.

Well, apparently, John and Sherlock are on Crack! 

It's just not reasonable! Even in fiction, character motivations should make sense. 

So, either John's and Sherlock's "forgiveness" is a ruse to trap Mary-- or it's just plain bad writing on Mofftiss' part. There, I said it. Otherwise, it makes absolutely no sense.

So in your eyes the problem is not that she is a killer but that she got caught?

What does she need punishing for?
Why are people stuck in episode 9?
We've had episode 10, now.
We've left Cam's office.
Sherlock's recovered.
We've had the confrontation scenes; in the house and in the flat.
We've had the Christmas reconciliation scene.
We've had hugs and kisses on the tarmac.
We've had the gathering of family and friends on the plane.
We've all got off the plane.
In short, the rest of the characters have all moved on..

EDIT: Sherlock is a killer too.
And John, depending on your view of the cabbie.

Last edited by besleybean (February 25, 2016 8:44 pm)

I refer the member to my previous post.
Sherlock and John have dealt with it...so have I.

EDIT: IMHO, Sherlock is far more traumatised by impending banishment, than anything Mary has done.

Last edited by besleybean (February 25, 2016 8:48 pm)

For me, my main problem with the character Mary is that she distracts from the team of Sherlock and John. Even if she had remained the nice and innocent Mary from TEH and SoT (or been even more likeable for those who didn't like her back then), I still wouldn't have wanted her in the show.

To me, it's not her assassin past that bothers me. Not even so much that she shot Sherlock (I view TV show differently than reality, they have their own "reality" which is different from ours in many ways). What bothers me is that she is John's wife and she is also pregnant. That, more than how she is as a person, will mean that she will be a distraction and just as big (if not bigger) part of John's life than Sherlock. And I don't like that, no matter what type of character Mary would have been or is. 

Last edited by Vhanja (February 25, 2016 8:57 pm)

Is Mary an evil murderer, or a female James Bond just doing what she had to do? I find it so hard to decide. Mary's character seems a bit up in the air to me, and I'm just waiting to see if we'll get more in s4. I can see both sides of the debate. On the one hand, what Mary has done is despicable. On the other, it seems as though Sherlock and John have forgiven her. Which puzzles me, why would they? But if that is the way Moffat and Gatiss are writing it, I'll have to go along with it.

I can't imagine they're just going to leave it as it is at the end of TAB, have her be an ordinary wife and mother character. Something else has to happen to move the story along. The only way I can see Mary turning out to be a "good guy" is if they do something like make her Birdy Edwards out of The Valley of Fear. The other possibility is that she's very bad, and Sherlock and John are either plotting how to get rid of her, or about to get a nasty surprise.

Yes, in whichever scenario they go with, I don't think she will survive s4.

SolarSystem wrote:

Vhanja wrote:

For me, my main problem with the character Mary is that she distracts from the team of Sherlock and John. Even if she had remained the nice and innocent Mary from TEH and SoT (or been even more likeable for those who didn't like her back then), I still wouldn't have wanted her in the show.

To me, it's not her assassin past that bothers me. Not even so much that she shot Sherlock (I view TV show differently than reality, they have their own "reality" which is different from ours in many ways). What bothers me is that she is John's wife and she is also pregnant. That, more than how she is as a person, will mean that she will be a distraction and just as big (if not bigger) part of John's life than Sherlock. And I don't like that, no matter what type of character Mary would have been or is. 

Good points, Vhanja. I admit, I do have a problem with her almost killing Sherlock and how she dealt - or let's better say: not dealt - with it afterwards. And I don't care what Mofftiss try to manipulate us into thinking about this, I want her to pay for this eventually.
But apart from that, you're right. She is a distraction, she distorts the dynamic of the show. I know that some people think the show needed a new dynamic, but I am not one of those people. Forthermore, I don't believe that introducing a new character to a show automatically improves the dynamics. Quite the contrary, sometimes. And I'm afraid this is one of those times for me.
 

When you're talking about the change in dynamic on the show-- yes, this is one of the big sticking points for me.  So, when Mofftiss referred to Mary as part of the "new team" in Post Mortem,  well-- my heart absolutely sank. 

ukaunz wrote:

I'm hoping they're just trying to deflect us from what will really happen... Or maybe they want us to think she is part of the team, a good guy, and she's really not... They like to pull the rug from under us!

I'm a-prayin'!