BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Refugees

Harriet · January 7, 2016 7:03 pm

Yes, besley, we've been nice!

besleybean · January 7, 2016 7:03 pm

Yay for us!

Harriet · January 7, 2016 7:05 pm

Right

besleybean · January 7, 2016 8:03 pm

To be fair the latter point has all too often been the problem when dealing with large groups or refugees, or indeed immigrants all at once and in a rush...ghettoisation.
Possibly there's a fine line between creating a settled community(which I did see the 3 years I lived in Birmingham)
and creating boiling pots of poverty, desperation , despair etc...and then some more powerful groups even create some no go ares in parts of London.

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 25, 2016 9:18 pm

It's days like these I'm a little ashamed of my country... or rather, the people representing it.

besleybean · January 25, 2016 9:19 pm

Why, what's happened?

This Is The Phantom Lady · January 25, 2016 9:29 pm

I am not fully updated (mostly because anything political here lately has been given me massive headaches... )

But for a while it's been known there's a bill that refugees will get taken away jewelry before they can be given any form of help (to be 'fair' me being on benefits, if I owned valuables over a certain amount, sentimental value or not I would have been asked to sell it first). But, it looks terrible and shouldn't happen. And as many has said, taking away jewelry from refugees has some very sinister notes to what happened in Germany in the 40's...

Today some of the politicians had to explain themselves in the EU parliament and apparently that ended on a very childish and snappy note from 'our' politicians.

Last edited by This Is The Phantom Lady (January 25, 2016 9:59 pm)

Whisky · January 25, 2016 11:17 pm

A discussion today reminded me of this thread today. It was about were we are born, which country, which town. It was so obvious to me that we don't choose. And that I could be the one living in a country less privileged, and that I could be the one who had to flee from war. I thought - I should feel humble, I am in no position to tell anyone where he or she should be allowed to live. (Maybe John Lennon was onto sth there...). No time to elaborate, I just wanted to drop that here... I don't think I will ever use the words "closing borders" or "limits". Even if I could see a need, it would just feel presumptuous to me.

tonnaree · January 26, 2016 12:16 am

Wise words Whisky.

Whisky · February 22, 2016 10:24 am

We discussed yesterday how media tries to turn the mood in the country. It's like, at the beginning there were supportive and enthusiastic reports about volunteers and the warm welcoming of refugees and subtext was "yes we will be able to handle this, it will be good".
Since a while, media coverage seems to take on a sceptic, if not pessimstic, view, writing how things become too difficult, how volunteers won't stick around to help, how too many refugees will be problematic for the country... But it's not like there is proof for it. It's more like "it can't last". But why shouldn't it?
I really feel like "the media will turn, they always do".

Thoughts? Do you experience the same?

nakahara · February 22, 2016 12:11 pm

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/18/the-media-are-misleading-public-syria/8YB75otYirPzUCnlwaVtcK/story.html

Davina · February 22, 2016 11:27 pm

I would say that much of the media in the UK was hostile from the get go.

Whisky · February 23, 2016 12:07 am

@nakahara: yes. But to be honest, I'm not even going to pretend I understand what's really going on in Syria. I tend to believe the refugees themselves the most. politics and agendas can distort the facts. and it really helps to read more than one or two newspapers... which I try to do. And yet, media is the main source for information and our formed opinions.

@davina: and are they getting it right? I must confess, I'm not so well informed where england stands in the refugee question. or rather, I read the papers but that's not necessarily the same as the people's opinions on the street.

In Germany we are facing both sides of the mirror. On the one hand, people are incredibly supportive with the refugees. I'd dare say, the majority. And then we got the sceptical group, which I can live with - having doubts is not a bad thing itself. But then on the other hand there are the right-positioned people, and from there it's just a tiny step to racism, hate, and aggression. but this is a minority, it just echoes incredibly loud in this country i think.

But I think the media has brought so many positive stories till now, that they are kind of willing to go the other direction now... whatever reason they have. I don't think this negativity should cloud the optimism we had month ago. But there is also politics... it's like many politicians slowly loose nerves. Which in turn is having a big impact on public opinion... we are made to believe politicians don't really now what to do (which even might be true, for all I know)... but I personally don't see another possibilty than helping and being open minded... and I don't want to see one of the rich countries in the world close the gates to people in need.

It's like problems are catching up, and everybody seems to be unsure how to proceed.

I'm just curious how other countries deal with this, or if they experience it like this.

Last edited by Whisky (February 23, 2016 12:24 am)

Yitzock · February 23, 2016 1:22 am

It's so complicated, and because people only know so much and can be misinformed depending on where they get their information from...it's a headache. What a time for Canada to have just got a new Prime Minister and the U.S. to have an election to have a new president. I know there's always complicated problems, but right now there is certainly a lot going on.

Here in Canada, we have let in over ten thousand refugees, but their problems aren't over - they need places to live, but right now that's slow going so a lot of them are stuck in hotels with little money. We need to slow down to help all these people. There's a shortage of housing for them, and some have long waiting lists, and there's concern people won't be so happy to have a recently-arrived refugee take the spot they've been waiting for for a year or two. It's complicated. People are supportive, but there's just so many people who need help, it's going to take time to process them all.

SolarSystem · February 23, 2016 10:57 am

Whisky wrote:
But I think the media has brought so many positive stories till now, that they are kind of willing to go the other direction now... whatever reason they have.

Can you give examples for stories that go "the other direction"? Is it "stories" or is it naming (possibly uncomfortable) facts?

Whisky · February 23, 2016 5:31 pm

@solar: I don't mind the facts. What do you mean by stories?
Examples, I don't know. It's an impression. Which facts do you refer to?
I certainly don't mean that the media covers the happenings in Clausnitz and elsewhere, I'm glad they do.
I mean more like the fear the integration process won't be successfull. If I find an article the next days that fits to explain myself, I'll post it.
I'm usually confident with writing english but right now I'm struggling a bit to express myself well.

(Was ich meine, ist, dass lange Zeit die Herausforderungen unterschriben wurden mit: das schaffen wir schon. Und jetzt gibt es immer mehr Schlagzeilen, die fragen: schaffen wir das wirklich? Ich frage mich nur, ob dieser Umschwung von Fakten gestützt wird. Ich sehe nicht so richtig, was jetzt so anders ist als vor einem Jahr. Außer dass vielleicht die große Lösung für jede Problematik ausgeblieben ist - aber das ist doch nicht wirklich überraschend. )

@Yitzock: here I also hear the strongest opinions from the people that are also in need of support. there is fear that they have to stand back because of the refugees. I cannot judge if this really happens. housing is indeed a problem.

Last edited by Whisky (February 23, 2016 5:36 pm)

SolarSystem · February 23, 2016 9:47 pm

I used the word "stories" because you also used it in the context of "positive stories". It's probably the language thing, but "stories" in this context sounds a bit as if journalists would sit down in the morning, thinking 'Okay, what kind of stories can we come up with today?'. In an ideal world (and I know we're not living in an ideal world), the media doesn't tell us stories, they simply tell us the truth. Positive and negative. I know of course that it gives a far nicer impression if the media can show pictures of people welcoming refugees at train stations while holding up posters saying "Refugees welcome". But call me a pessimist: I knew right then and there that this wouldn't last. Politics, including Angela Merkel, are still relying far too much on volunteers to help out. They did so from the very beginning, and up to a certain degree that's understandable. But it seems to me that nothing much has happened since then.
Last week I was in a small village because we were doing a play there. It's fascinating that even during an evening like this, people were repeatedly talking about the refugees who are now living in that village and that everyone is needed to offer support and help. The local politicians seem to be at a total loss, they are left alone with the situation and just have to make do. That seems to the reality now.
So I am not the least bit surprised that a lot of people - including the media - are now asking uncomfortable questions - and well, such questions have been asked from almost the very beginning, but maybe not everyone was listening? I totally agree that we can't close our eyes before this whole situation, help is needed and Europe needs to help. But it seems that since this crisis began, there isn't much left of Europe. Still, help is needed. I think though that it is important to also talk about the problems and difficulties we will have to face in the future. Positive coverage is important and good, but why can't we have both? Positive and also critical coverage? Because being critical means that you're xenophobic?

And what's different now compared to one year ago? Well, I'd say that one year ago people in Germany weren't really aware of what was about to happen, I think it only became really apparent last summer. And I don't think that it's necessary to have a solution for every single problem now, but my impression is that we need a broad idea, a broad plan for the next months and years. Not just for Germany, for the whole of Europe. And at the moment that seems to be illusory.

Last edited by SolarSystem (February 23, 2016 9:51 pm)

Whisky · February 23, 2016 10:21 pm

I agree with you. Simple as that.

But I think the broad idea we need... it needs to be a political one.
I agree on both having positive and critical coverage.
I just think pessimism won't help. If people stop being optimistic - which doesn't really
mean closing your eyes to the reality - I just fear we will be in bigger trouble soon.
Especially volunteers need reassurance, not uncertainty. But you are right, they already carry too much of the weight.

SolarSystem · February 23, 2016 10:37 pm

And I agree with you.
Yes, the broad idea definitely needs to be a political one, and I'm sure that when Merkel said "Wir schaffen das", nobody really believed her to have a finished plan in her pocket already. But I guess a lot of people thought that she and the German government and eventually the EU would come up with something sensible. This was how many months ago...? About six months. I'd say that since then the biggest success has been that most refugees don't have to live in tents anymore. Which is a success, definitely. But there still is no real concept. It's just reacting and not really acting.