BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The Abominable Bride: Post Mortem

Ivy · February 19, 2016 9:13 pm

I already posted it here:http://sherlock.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?pid=249169#p249169

but I think it's too interesting to be overlooked and therefore needs a own topic post/thread

Liberty · February 19, 2016 9:18 pm

I think it needs its own thread too! Very enlightening - thanks for posting!

RavenMorganLeigh · February 19, 2016 9:30 pm

Just watched the whole thing, and then found this thread for discussion. Okay. Right out of the gate-- my prediction is that Mary is not going anywhere. In fact, she may get a lot more screen time, judging by the interview.

Liberty · February 19, 2016 10:12 pm

I'm intrigued by the ongoing element that we've apparently all missed!

ukaunz · February 20, 2016 7:08 am

I don't think Mary is necessarily going to be sticking around much longer. I think they included Amanda in this interview because they couldn't get Benedict or Martin, they already had Mark, and after those three, she was the character with the most screen time in TAB, which they were mainly there to discuss. Doesn't mean she'll have a lot of screen time in s4 or even be in all three episodes (here's hoping).

Btw, I loved Amanda's bee necklace.

Last edited by ukaunz (February 20, 2016 7:44 am)

Liberty · February 20, 2016 10:00 am

I'm a little bit frustrated that the interviewer kept asking about what was going to happen in S4 - obviously, they weren't going to tell him, and I felt it was a missed opportunity to hear more about TAB.

besleybean · February 20, 2016 1:36 pm

Ok, seen it:
first thing I want to say is that I literally cried laughing at Mark's telling the tale of attempting to smuggle Andrew away from location.
A general comment on that point: thing is when you have four people there, it's sometimes difficult for them to all get a word in. There was a frustrating occasion for me, where I thought I caught Mark about to say something else funny about Andrew...but somebody else was speaking and then the moment was lost!
Anyhow, the main thrust of my post will focus on the biggies for me(all relating to predictions for S4)But before I get to those, another general comment: I was so glad with the discussion on 'telling lies'. For me this is one of those issues which I wish we could now lay to rest. They are in TV, there business means they cannot give away spoilers.
Just one separate issue, before I comment on what I'm meant to be posting about.
So what of Steven's statement that there is still something we're all missing and that we are heading somewhere? I confess my initial reaction was to put my head in my hands and groan, as I did immediately think of Johnlock and could have cursed Steven for feeding again! But actually having reflected upon it. Surely it can't possibly be that, as that has to be the one thing that most people dwell on- never mind have missed!
Honestly I will get there, but I've just thought of the one thing related to TAB itself that I did want to mention: I am so glad we had the distinction between The Suffragists and The Death Cult.
Anyway, on:
So I will be dealing with: baby, drugs, Mary,Moriarty and Mind Palace.
1. Baby. Again, DID I hear Mark say something about we'll see ' baby Watson' in S4?
2. Drugs: so as I have always believed, yes Sherlock was indeed high(on the plane) and this is when he has his fanciful imaginings but also deals with real issues. As specifically stated by the team, his appalling treatment of women.Whether or not he is going to use drugs in future episodes, I don't know.
3. Mary: so definitely part of the new team, does she really work for Mycroft? But they certainly consider her to be damn smart. They all seemed to speak of the reconciliation scene as lovingly as they always have and how I see it. Note how Amanda knew the fandom were going to hate Mary for shooting Sherlock...well, not all of us dear. Don't fret over that one, love! There was something personal relating to Amanda that distracted me, too. But as it's about real life, I'd better not say.
4. Moriarty: so they all definitely state he is dead and wouldn't even take Boyd on about him possibly appearing in future mind palaces etc. I remain unsure.
5. Mind Palace: well really just glad that they distinguished between the general memory technique and the(so far) two occasion where's Sherlock's thoughts have been drug induced.

Oh and I'll end on another amusing point: Mark letting slip a spoiler, but Benedict not hearing him and Amanda forgetting what she's been told.
Plus who knew about the childhood photo of Sherlock and Mycroft, in Sherlock's bedroom? The one with a fat young Mycroft.

Last edited by besleybean (February 20, 2016 2:32 pm)

Liberty · February 20, 2016 7:18 pm

Great points, Besleybean!

When I heard about the theme that everybody has missed, I immediately thought of Ukaunz's post over on the John/Mary/Sherlock thread, and wondered if there was something else going on between Sherlock and Mary? After all, Sherlock so easily forgives Mary, puts himself at risk to try to get her back in John's life, sacrifices himself for her (and John, but it's Mary's name he says), is evasive in the greenhouse scene, etc. I thought what if he'd actually fallen for Mary? Suddenly it all seemed to fit!   But I don't want that to happen, and really don't think that's what Stephen was talking about!

I don't think it could possibly be Johnlock - kind of difficult to miss that . But it will be fun speculating about what it exactly it was. This was probably the biggest revelation for me, even if it doesn't tell us anything concrete!

I thought that there was a really strong hint that Mary was working for Mycroft in real life, but I think Mark confirmed that it really is only a hint - we're not meant to go off assuming that she does.   This was Sherlock extrapolating. (With the focus on the superagent part rather than the assassin part - kind of oddly, because it was the assassin part that he has actually seen!).

I did feel that there was a distinction betweenthe suffragettes and the death cult in TAB, but it was nice that they confirmed it (I felt we were just meant to assume it in the show, rather than it being spelled out). And I liked the point about Sherlock addressing his relationships with women - I felt that that was a very strong theme in TAB.

I agree about the spoiler (Mark accidently telling Benedict) - that was a great story, and it must have been a huge spoiler if it bothered him so much!   And it was an interesting point about the actors more or less being the last to know what was going on.

I'm not looking for a Mary/Molly spinoff! (Although a show about Mary, superagent/assassin, could be interesting, if it was really well done).

And the photograph in the bedroom!   I liked the idea that Sherlock was having some fun in his mind palace, with fat Mycroft ... and of course the funny scenes such as the one with Wilder at the Diogenes club, or the conversation between Mrs Hudson and LeStrade about him, were actually made up by him and presumably part of the fun (poking fun at himself a bit too, which is kind of endearing!).

Last edited by Liberty (February 20, 2016 7:19 pm)

besleybean · February 20, 2016 7:23 pm

I really hope they don't go there with Sherlock and Mary and I honestly can't see them doing it

I equally hope it won't be Sherlock gradually using more drugs and more often...though I might have to accept it, if it's the only way we get to see more Andrew!
Incidentally, I did think Boyd was quite cute...trying not to fan boy about Andrew too much.

Last edited by besleybean (February 20, 2016 7:26 pm)

Liberty · February 20, 2016 7:26 pm

No, I can't really see it either, and I think it just came into my head because I was reading that thread. But it was funny the way it all seemed to shift and fit and soon as I thought of it! Sherlock seems to really, really like Mary (without much reason to).

besleybean · February 20, 2016 7:27 pm

I don't think it's too surprising that Sherlock likes Mary so much...she's very like him.
But as with John, it doesn't mean Sherlock wants a relationship with her.
I also think Mary genuinely loves John.

I meant to add, the only other thing I thought it could be, is Mycroft's death- and I really hope it isn't that.
I hope it's just me beginning to over dwell on this, now.
But I'm just thinking: apart from the references to Mycroft's weight problem causing ill health, there is the constant asking of John to take care of Sherlock- as if Mycroft wasn't going to be around.
I know Mark says Mycroft's declaration of 'Your loss would break my heart' is only cos the tea has been doped...but even so. Possibly it is Mycroft wanting to let Sherlock know he really does love him, again, for when he's not around to say it in person.
I must get away from this line of thought!

Last edited by besleybean (February 20, 2016 7:51 pm)

nakahara · February 20, 2016 9:45 pm

Liberty wrote:
I'm intrigued by the ongoing element that we've apparently all missed!

I´m surprised people still fall for this kind of claim from Moftiss.
"The clue that everybody missed" from TFR - was it properly explained at any time?
"Something you missed" - exactly that claim appeared during S3 too.
And now again?
Laughable. I never expected Moffatt to be such a "one trick pony"... sad really.

besleybean · February 20, 2016 9:47 pm

I think you can sometimes tell when Mark and Steven are having a laugh and/or teasing.
But I felt in this instance that Steven was quite sincere.

nakahara · February 20, 2016 9:50 pm

besleybean wrote:
Note how Amanda knew the fandom were going to hate Mary for shooting Sherlock...well, not all of us dear. Don't fret over that one, love!

Hating a repulsive character who shot your hero (which, in my case, I loved from childhood) is a normal psychological reaction. If Moftiss did not expect that, what the hell were they thinking?

nakahara · February 20, 2016 9:52 pm

besleybean wrote:
I don't think it's too surprising that Sherlock likes Mary so much...she's very like him.

They are nothing alike.

Harriet · February 20, 2016 9:53 pm

nakahara wrote:
besleybean wrote:
Note how Amanda knew the fandom were going to hate Mary for shooting Sherlock...well, not all of us dear. Don't fret over that one, love!
Hating a repulsive character who shot your hero (which, in my case, I loved from childhood) is a normal psychological reaction. If Moftiss did not expect that, what the hell were they thinking?

I also don't believe there is any need to comfort Amanda here, after all, she is just the actor. I think we are pretty capable of telling one thing from another.

besleybean · February 20, 2016 9:53 pm

@nakahara Well I don't know whether they expected it or not, they don't really dwell on it...in this interview at least.
It just happened to be Amanda who referred to it, but then she was the one at one time driven from Twitter, because of some of this hate.

Last edited by besleybean (February 20, 2016 9:54 pm)

nakahara · February 20, 2016 9:54 pm

besleybean wrote:
I think you can sometimes tell when Mark and Steven are having a laugh and/or teasing.
But I felt in this instance that Steven was quite sincere.

They were not teasing when claiming that "the clue we all missed" exists in TRF. It was just their usual bullshit - exactly like this one.
And I want to bet they never explain this "new one" properly either.

Harriet · February 20, 2016 9:56 pm

LOL, nakahara

besleybean · February 20, 2016 9:56 pm

I thought we'd decided that it was the ambulance station blocking John's view as the point Steven thought we'd all missed...when actually most of us had picked up on it straight away.