Ah, yes, Steven's last comment is probably why I interpreted the "very first cut" to be John being jealous of Janine.

In my opinion if they wanted John to look pleased Martin failed spectacularly. 

tonnaree wrote:

In my opinion if they wanted John to look pleased Martin failed spectacularly. 

 
Yes, thank you, tonnaree. I fully agree with this. I see no happiness at all in this. And it doesn't matter if I want to see it for the sake of friendship or not, for me it's simply not there.

"Gobsmacked" is the word that always springs to mind to describe his expression - that's the overwhelming impression that I get!  I do see a little bit of a smile which looks like a smile of amazement (like he's thinking "Really?"), but I suppose it helps to show that it's positive rather than negative, pleased rather than disapproving.   (The scene reminds me a little of John meeting Sherlock's parents and being similarly surprised, but not in a negative way).  This sprung to mind for me as a more negative expression in response to a highly surprising event:



I do believe the writers, but another thing that really fits with is the scene in the greenhouse in TAB - John is concerned about Sherlock being "alone" (or at least, Sherlock thinks he's concerned!).  But the main thing is that it's Sherlock, dating like a "normal person".  That's what John keeps coming back to through the scene, completely ignoring the case!

As for why he might be jealous, I think Vhanja's explanation makes sense and fits with Steven's comment.  I think I'd call it envy rather than jealousy in that case.  But yes, we know that he's not jealous there.  And why they didn't want to show him as jealous - well, I think it's not very flattering to John's character whatever the reason for jealousy.  And because John should be pleased for Sherlock, because a good friend would be.

There's also this slightly different interpretation of John's reaction to Janine
http://mygreatestjoyandprivilege.tumblr.com/post/85739130055/pornpreferencenormal-how-a-failed-monogamous

Vhanja wrote:

Also, I don't think the skill of the actor necessarily is what will limited the amount of different interpretations there are. Fans always have different views and see the show through different eyes. There will always be different interpretations, I think, no matter how the actors act or what the cast and crew says in interviews about how they think it is.

Very good observation. I agree.

I agree with all of that, Vhanja.   The interpretation in Ukaunz's link - I came to a similar conclusion after reading the meta which claimed that there was jealousy there.  I absolutely think that jealousy happens in friendships (and I think we see it very clearly in the scene with Sherlock and Sholto), and believe it could be possible for John to be jealous in that situation.  However, I didn't see it before reading the meta.  And I think it would show John in a less positive light - he was the one who moved out, he has just got married, been on honeymoon and not contacted Sherlock until he came across him by accident.  It would be churlish of him to begrudge Sherlock a girlfriend, and some human company, especially as he is living with Mary.   (Of course, it might be possible for him to be churlish - I'll get to Sherlock being rather churlish later!  But I don't really see it). 

I agree about the acting as well - Martin Freeman is a great actor, but we all came away with different interpretations, because I think it is difficult for us to pin things like that down - we relate them to the context.  (To clarify about "envy" - I think I'm the only person that mentioned that, and I didn't see it.  I just suggested it was the word I would use for what Steven Moffat was describing). 

I think the comparism to the scene to Irene is a good one - clearly, there isn't the same thing going on in both, and John doesn't have that half-smile in the Irene scene.  It's obvious to me why he's annoyed there, but I'm sure it's another area that we'll all see slightly differently.   (John has been worried about Sherlock for a long time, and has been kept in the dark by him.   They make him feel like a fool, and flirt in a rather ostentatious way while ignoring him, in his own home.   I think he's entitled to be snappy here).

I think the Sholto scene is another good comparism - I think that's one scene where we all agree that there's jealousy!  It's very clear.  And definitely no little smiles.   There is no way (I feel) to interpret that as Sherlock being pleased that John's old friend turned up (even if that's what he should be feeling as a friend). 

Last edited by Liberty (February 17, 2016 7:04 pm)

I would actually think that a very skilled actor would make for more interpretations than a mediocre one, because their acting would be more layered and nuanced. We are back to the "two emotions at once"-comment from Ian McKellen. Martin manages to portray shock, amusement, disbelief, bewilderment, confusion - and perhaps a tad of jealousy in one form or another - without really saying much. 

Last edited by Vhanja (February 17, 2016 7:16 pm)

I'm always happy that people appreciate what the writers say about their own work and don't think they always lie! 

ukaunz wrote:

Well when the writers flat out tell you that they do lie, it's hard not to take them at their word!

This. 
And there is a difference between talking about your work in general and telling people that you lie about the specific direction a show is going to take.