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May 29, 2015 5:10 pm  #141


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

REReader wrote:

After our look at Sherlock's father, I could visualize him as not being very handy around the house--which I imagined as leading to young Sherlock figuring out how to do things that he wanted done, like putting up bookshelves, by himself.

 
I could visualize Sherlock excited to get his hands on large tools.

OH GOD!
SAID IT OUT LOUD!

TOPIC!!!!!

Some people think Moftiss may have done terrible things to the character of Sherlock in their modern adaptation.

Discuss!

 


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May 29, 2015 5:32 pm  #142


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

Oh, Lord!!! Power Tools. 
Ahem. 

 

January 3, 2016 3:11 pm  #143


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

You seem to ask, after a clarification: is there a reason in the writing for Sherlock being called by negative epithets?

Well, in the show he is called: freak, psychopath, arrogant sod. 

He is not a freak or a psychopath, but he is an arrogant sod.

I also don't agree when you say that Sherlock has vices, not flaws. Smoking is a vice. Arrogance is a flaw. 

Anyway, then you go on to post links to some very interesting blogposts about how Sherlock has had to change who he is to deserve love. Both very interesting, but I don't see what they have to do with your original question. I'll just say that yes, it does seem like Sherlock has had to progress to become more "normal" to deserve love. Many will probably argue that Sherlock is just maturing, being more sensitive etc. In TAB John pretty much said it's not human to to be disinterested in romance, to not have "impulses",as he puts it, and that Sherlock is greatly flawed because of that of all things. When he asks: What made you like this? He doesn't ask: why are you so rude and arrogant? He asks: why don't you want a girlfriend/relationship?
Sherlock doesn't reject friendship. not even close friendship. But somehow, the fact that he rejects conventional romance is seen as inhuman, the show implies it means Sherlock won't let anybody close to him. But, he does let John close to him, but that is just not enough. Sherlock needs to settle down, commit romantically, to be considered human. With him and John it was clearly a case of John just being a kind of Mr. Right (platonic or romantic, up to you). Someone who, initially anyway, accepted Sherlock as he was, and even needed him to be the way he was. If Sherlock isn't asexual, then the lack of romantic attachments is most likely because that Miss Right hasn't showed up in the same way, so I don't see why John had to be such a bully about it. But I digress. 

But I suppose Sherlock has been character assasinated, for I don't see that Sherlock in the canon either. I just see a stuffy, victorian genleman. But I don't much care for the canon so I'm obviously not bothered. 

 

January 3, 2016 3:19 pm  #144


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

Wow, this has moved on somewhat.
I can't even remember if I've posted on here before...
But to answer the thread title question:
No Mark and Steven(I hate Moftiss with a passion)haven't assassinated the character of Sherlock.
Each episode of Sherlock BBC gives us greater insight into the man.
TAB particularly so as it was a complete trip through Sherlock's mind.
I love the man and can't wait to see the next episode of his story.


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January 7, 2016 9:56 am  #145


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

S3 was one long character assassination for me. But with TAB they've done an excellent re-awakening. I'm as much in love with Sherlock again as ever.

 

February 9, 2016 11:56 am  #146


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

What puzzles me is the decision of the authors to surround Sherlock by the mass of brilliant characters.

At the beginning of the series, Sherlock was described as somebody unique, genius even and his intelligence and brilliant mind was supposed to both elevate him above his surroundings and at the same time, to tragically separate him from it. It was interesting to watch how he copes with that. He was the original and intriguing character.

But suddenly, everybody around him is super smart and more brilliant than him. Mycroft, Moriarty, Sherlock´s mother, CAM, Mary, now even John is damn smart and even the side characters like Molly and Janine can outwit Sherlock with ease...

And instead of giving Sherlock some skill that would save his agency as a smart thinker and a detective, the authors deluted him further by making him the victim of drugs and hallucination, so that even some fans who love him are persuaded now that Shelock needs constant keeper, because he is unable to take care of himself...

You know what happens when you have a unique thing



but suddenly place it among hundreds of similar objects?



It will completely loose its uniqueness and becomes just one-of-the-number average object.

Why was this neccessary? It maybe makes for a good drama but as to Sherlock´s character... well... didn´t he become a bit superfluous in his own story?


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

     Thread Starter
 

February 9, 2016 3:34 pm  #147


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

To me, Sherlock is still unique and he still has the abilities that separates him from everyone else. I think what they are doing is a good way of making a character development. At first they focused a lot on Sherlock being cold, arrogant and a genius above everyone else. When that was established, they started delving into, and developing, his emotional side.

That is what makes him so interesting to me, how he is so emotional that he tries to divorce himself from that side of himself - and fails. 

To me, the show doesn't make him one of many, but they are slowly humanizing him more and more. 

Also, a man like Sherlock needs enemies on his own level, otherwise it would become too simple and boring, both for him and for us to watch.


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February 9, 2016 5:04 pm  #148


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

I have some of the reservations you do, Nakahara, although not to the extent that you do.  I think that only Mycroft is shown to be more brilliant than Sherlock, and that's OK (that rivalry seems to be part of what makes Sherlock who he is).  I think what you say was more of an issue in S3 than in TAB - in TAB Sherlock seems to be back on form (after being basically outwitted by Magnussen) and solves a crime entirely in his own mind with no help (unless you count the drugs, which are kind of canon).   But I agree, I don't want Sherlock to have to be babysat.  That wasn't the case before (Mycroft gets John to search for drugs in ASIB, but it turns out it wasn't needed).   

I have mixed feelings about the hint in TAB that Sherlock chooses to be alone to avoid being hurt, rather than to preserve his mind - I do love the very human, highly emotional (but repressed) picture of Sherlock, but I'm also very drawn to the arrogant but genuinely superior, more Spock-like genius (very much in control of his emotions, but flashes being seen occasionally).  And I do like him to be different, unique.

Last edited by Liberty (February 9, 2016 5:05 pm)

 

February 9, 2016 11:09 pm  #149


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

Vhanja wrote:

To me, Sherlock is still unique and he still has the abilities that separates him from everyone else. I think what they are doing is a good way of making a character development. At first they focused a lot on Sherlock being cold, arrogant and a genius above everyone else. When that was established, they started delving into, and developing, his emotional side.

That is what makes him so interesting to me, how he is so emotional that he tries to divorce himself from that side of himself - and fails. 

To me, the show doesn't make him one of many, but they are slowly humanizing him more and more. 

Also, a man like Sherlock needs enemies on his own level, otherwise it would become too simple and boring, both for him and for us to watch.

I know what you mean and it´s true that Sherlock has evolved emotionally during the duration of the show. But was it neccessary to remove his intelectual prowess to achieve that? He is still unique as a person, I agree. But is he still unique as a detective or simply as a great mind now? Since everybody seems to possess incredible mental skills in this show all of a sudden.

Sherlock´s enemies could have been given some powers different from Sherlock´s and it still would be interesting, I guess.


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

     Thread Starter
 

February 9, 2016 11:14 pm  #150


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

Liberty wrote:

 I think that only Mycroft is shown to be more brilliant than Sherlock, and that's OK (that rivalry seems to be part of what makes Sherlock who he is).

 

I don´t know... for example, Bill Wiggins made very clever deductions in HLV too. Mary outsmarted even Mycroft in TAB. And from the look of it, Magnussen was maybe even smarter than all of them combined (aside from his hubris which killed him).

Liberty wrote:

  I have mixed feelings about the hint in TAB that Sherlock chooses to be alone to avoid being hurt, rather than to preserve his mind - I do love the very human, highly emotional (but repressed) picture of Sherlock, but I'm also very drawn to the arrogant but genuinely superior, more Spock-like genius (very much in control of his emotions, but flashes being seen occasionally).  And I do like him to be different, unique.

Oh yes, I second that. Nothing against the emotional Sherlock, but his unapproachable, cold, unshakable beauty is a bit more fascinating than that.... 


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I cannot live without brainwork. What else is there to live for? Stand at the window there. Was there ever such a dreary, dismal, unprofitable world? See how the yellow fog swirls down the street and drifts across the dun-coloured houses. What could be more hopelessly prosaic and material? What is the use of having powers, Doctor, when one has no field upon which to exert them?

     Thread Starter
 

February 10, 2016 12:00 am  #151


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

nakahara wrote:

I know what you mean and it´s true that Sherlock has evolved emotionally during the duration of the show. But was it neccessary to remove his intelectual prowess to achieve that? He is still unique as a person, I agree. But is he still unique as a detective or simply as a great mind now? Since everybody seems to possess incredible mental skills in this show all of a sudden.

Sherlock´s enemies could have been given some powers different from Sherlock´s and it still would be interesting, I guess.

I haven't seen anything that makes me think they have removed his intellectual prowess. I just think it has been put in the background for a little while as the show focuses more on the emotional and personal drama and character development instead of the detective work. ("Not a detective show, but a show about a detective"). And neither do I see everyone around having developed some amazing skills - apart from Mary. Everybody else are as they always have been when it comes to this part, as I see it.

I still think it's a bit too early to conclude with anything, I want to see where they take this in S4 both with Sherlock and the other characters that surround him before I make up my mind about this.

Last edited by Vhanja (February 10, 2016 12:02 am)


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"We'll live on starlight and crime scenes" - wordstrings


Team Hudders!
 
 

February 10, 2016 6:35 am  #152


Re: Did Moftiss „assassinate“ Sherlock as a character?

In view of the thread, I'm prepared to be much more bold:
I have loved BBC Sherlock's lead, from the minute I saw him.
Most of all I love how intelligently he is written.
That for me has never changed. We have seen a gradual development, rounding  of and filling out of the character.
I think Mark and Steven are two of the best writers in the country, so I can be content in knowing that whatever they bring us in future will at the very least be interesting, but(judging on the past record) more likely brilliant.


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