BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » The Abominable Bride (for those who have seen it)

SusiGo · February 5, 2016 10:47 am

Sorry, I could not find the thread in which we discussed Mycroft wearing a different tie than in HLV. At the end of this post there is quite a good explanation IMO which, if true, would mean that the whole of TAB is mind palace.

http://johnnlocked.tumblr.com/post/138722664736/skulls-and-tea-lynneyginnyjoan

Schmiezi · February 5, 2016 12:14 pm

That would mean that when Sherlock told everybody that Moriarty was dead and he knew what he would do next - that took place inside the mind palace too?

SusiGo · February 5, 2016 12:16 pm

Yes, I think so. It would mean that the whole episode was just in Sherlock's mind.

ukaunz · February 5, 2016 12:23 pm

Well where does that leave us at the beginning of s4, I wonder??

Schmiezi · February 5, 2016 12:27 pm

Inside the plane, I'd say.

Edit: That way, the final scene of TAB with Holmes and Watson at 221b makes sense as well.

Last edited by Schmiezi (February 5, 2016 12:29 pm)

ukaunz · February 5, 2016 12:30 pm

And maybe Sherlock didn't take drugs after all? That would make it easier for Moftiss to move the story on without getting bogged down in the details of Sherlock having OD'd.

Little Weed · February 5, 2016 12:30 pm

I guess the clue that we're still in the mind palace is the credits cut scene...

Ivy · February 5, 2016 1:46 pm

I wonder if they continue with the plane or have time leap, I don't think it will be the three years that happen in real life (like they did in series 3) that wouldn't make sense. Because "England" needs him because of the Moriarty video.

Mothonthemantel · February 5, 2016 2:25 pm

Yes the special was all mp imo.
I think Sherlock worked out that it is Mycroft and John behind the miss me message in tab , and now the point has been made that England needs Sherlock because there will always be criminals ready to step into Moriartys shoes, he will get the pardon. So probable a bit of a time skip with the baby born and a new case to start So4 and the audience discovering this by the end of the season.

tonnaree · February 5, 2016 4:26 pm

Mothonthemantel wrote:
Yes the special was all mp imo.
I think Sherlock worked out that it is Mycroft and John behind the miss me message in tab , and now the point has been made that England needs Sherlock because there will always be criminals ready to step into Moriartys shoes, he will get the pardon. So probable a bit of a time skip with the baby born and a new case to start So4 and the audience discovering this by the end of the season.

I've always been fond of the "Mycroft is behind it" theory, but I don't see anything in TAB that would support it.

Yitzock · February 5, 2016 4:30 pm

The only thing that I could see that might support it is that if Mycroft is behind it, then he's so hurt by Sherlock taking drugs because he feels like he should not have caused that, but since there's a suggestion that Sherlock took the drugs before he even got on the plane that doesn't seem likely, so I can't think of anything that strongly supports it.

Last edited by Yitzock (February 5, 2016 4:30 pm)

Schmiezi · February 5, 2016 4:30 pm

tonnaree wrote:
Mothonthemantel wrote:
Yes the special was all mp imo.
I think Sherlock worked out that it is Mycroft and John behind the miss me message in tab , and now the point has been made that England needs Sherlock because there will always be criminals ready to step into Moriartys shoes, he will get the pardon. So probable a bit of a time skip with the baby born and a new case to start So4 and the audience discovering this by the end of the season.
I've always been fond of the "Mycroft is behind it" theory, but I don't see anything in TAB that would support it.

I don't understand where you see proof for John's involvement too but it sounds very interesting. Could you explain it a bit?

besleybean · February 5, 2016 5:16 pm

I don't think John is involved at all and I'm not convinced it's Mycroft...though it could be.

Mothonthemantel · February 5, 2016 5:31 pm

It is just my opinion. A few things make me think it .
Mycroft saying I hope you have learnt your lesson at the end of hlv.
Mycroft asking Sherlock to take the Ricoletti case to test a theory and have some good sport.
Mycroft asking Sherlock if he understood why the one scientist shot the other - jealous rage, the sentiment.
Mycroft suddenly having the miss me tag ,and the conversation then.
Sherlock realising Mycroft risked his life to save him and help him before - E Europe , drugs etc
Sherlock explaining how it must have been an inside job and a conspiracy -only people that knew the what and when and were already in the house.So who knew Sherlock was leaving on the mission and when ,seems like another inside job.
It seems likely that if a Moriarty figure is still around, ( theimprobableone from the blog?) Mycroft would know , and so there is already a person to take the blame as it were for the message.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (February 5, 2016 5:32 pm)

Liberty · February 5, 2016 6:58 pm

Very interesting. I don't think we have anything absolutely definite on what is mind palace and what isn't, although to be honest, I think it would be taking the "it was all a dream" trope too far to make the whole thing mind palace and not tell us until S4! However, Sherlock's final conclusion is kind of pointless ("I've worked out how somebody else faked their death, and somehow that makes me sure that Moriarty didn't").

I think you're right, Moth, in that if they do make the whole thing mind palace, they'll jump forward rather than starting from the plane.

I do wonder how much they're going to want to hark back to TAB in S4, though. They don't do an awful lot of referencing back between series (obviously there's some, and quite a fair bit in TEH, but I felt a lot was still left behind).

Mothonthemantel · February 5, 2016 11:08 pm

Yes I agree Liberty. It is Moffats style to create intrigue and then wipe it all away and reboot with one or two lines. I think MG said in a radio interview -- it wasn't complex((tab)) it was a drug fueled mind palace trip , whats hard about that - paraphrasing but similar.
They like to let us theorise and then go and do the last thing we expect.
It might be the last modern scene was real ,but even so , it would mean very little for S04.
When they said TAB was in it's own bubble , they maybe/probably told a truth !

kgreen20 · February 6, 2016 2:10 am

I believe that the last modern-day scene was real, and that the rest of the episode was set in Sherlock's mind palace.

We will find out for sure when Season 4 airs.

Solenn · February 7, 2016 11:34 am

It would be great if Mycroft was behind it Ready to do anything to prevent his brother from leaving . I won't be surprised if he was , really . As for John, I'm not sure. But it could make sense , too . Perhaps even Mary knows.

Last edited by Solenn (February 7, 2016 11:35 am)

SusiGo · February 7, 2016 8:44 pm

Liberty wrote:
I do wonder how much they're going to want to hark back to TAB in S4, though. They don't do an awful lot of referencing back between series (obviously there's some, and quite a fair bit in TEH, but I felt a lot was still left behind).

Well, if TAB was completely MP, I think they will hardly go back to that.

As for the referencing back: I think they do this quite a lot but not in the sense of giving explanations. The real connection between the episodes is the use of mirror scenes, parallels, the same lines delivered by different characters (e.g. the "It didn't work for me" said by Molly and John, "How would you know?" by Mycroft and Sherlock, "the damsel in distress" by Mycroft and Magnussen and many, many others).

Ivy · February 19, 2016 8:15 pm