BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

besleybean · January 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Er, I can speak for myself!
Let me try and explain:
Yes Sherlock is human and feels emotions and he does love.
He loves John.
But I don't think we are going to see him in a relationship in the show.
It is a loving friendship, IMHO.

Harriet · January 16, 2016 5:16 pm

I think we saw in TAB quite clearly what a relief and joy and source of energy the love relationship with John provides: It makes Sherlock even fly, with a hearty laughter on his face.
He does not need to hide his emotions anymore, a waste of energy, as he realises.

besleybean · January 16, 2016 5:17 pm

Interesting to see how it pans out.

EDIT: Hubby and I are currently watching a Bowie tribute on TV and it's 'John, I'm only dancing' playing.
I immediately thought of Sherock and thankfully I have remembered what I was thinking about in bed this morning!(So thank you, David Bowie.)
Anyhow. It crossed my mind that another way of looking at Sherlock and John's relationship is this: when Sherlock was young, possibly he didn't have too many friends, or at least maybe not close ones.
He doesn't strike me as the kind of kid who went off climbing trees, exploring caves etc.
To me, what Sherlock now has with John, is a kind of delayed boys own adventure...as an adult.
John is that one close friend Sherlock has always been waiting for, to go off on adventures with and enjoy The Game with.
Maybe the only other friend he had like this, was Redbeard.

Last edited by besleybean (January 16, 2016 5:43 pm)

Liberty · January 16, 2016 7:55 pm

Funnily enough I was just thinking about something similar over in the "addiction" thread, before I read this, Besley! Great minds, eh?

besleybean · January 16, 2016 7:57 pm

Wonder if we've both heard or seen something that prompted us?
Actually on the dvd extras, Steven of course states that he does think young Sherlock would have had friends...but surely none like Redbeard and then the ultimate in John?

Liberty · January 16, 2016 8:03 pm

ukaunz wrote:
This person has a pretty good argument:
In tPLoSH they revealed Sherlock’s homosexuality by saying women were “not his glass of tea” and in BBC’s Sherlock they reveal the same by saying women are “not really his area"
After Gatiss admitting to believing tPLoSH’s Sherlock to be canonically gay and in love with Watson, and using tPLoSH as a template, and after watching both scenes myself, there’s really no argument
BBC’s Sherlock is canonically homosexual and that's intended
http://tjlc.co.vu/post/81797797718/in-tplosh-they-revealed-sherlocks-homosexuality

I hope you remember your ideas besley, I'm interested to hear them

(Also interested in Besley's ideas ).

Actually, TPLOSH was much more explicit than that. Holmes also more than hinted that Watson and he had been lovers for years. That and the "glass of tea" thing was a way out of a sticky situation, and neither quite reveal him as gay. I think the real giveaway line is "Yes, you are being presumptious". It's a little bit open to interpretation, but not very much - he seems to clearly be being shown as gay.

Liberty · January 16, 2016 8:07 pm

besleybean wrote:
Wonder if we've both heard or seen something that prompted us?
Actually on the dvd extras, Steven of course states that he does think young Sherlock would have had friends...but surely none like Redbeard and then the ultimate in John?

It's almost as though he's stuck at the "best friends" stage of emotional development and love relationships (not that that can't run alongside grown-up "eros" relationships, of course - but he chooses not to have those sort of relationships).

SusiGo · January 16, 2016 8:09 pm

Which does not mean that he will remain stuck in that stage. He has already progressed quite far. The show is not over.

Liberty · January 16, 2016 8:14 pm

Mothonthemantel wrote:
Liberty . I thought Sherlock made the women in tab all quite angry and untrustworthy , I did not notice any of them being attractive or anything to Holmes. Could you expand on what you mean in Sherlocks character or a more suitable thread as OT for here please .

The part I'm thinking of is suitable for here! When they're talking in the greenhouse, the unusually perceptive mind palce John notices that Sherlock has been quite taken by Lady Carmichael. (I didn't realise at the time, but Sherlock has "used" the pilot to create her - this was an actual woman, and perhaps a little like Irene). John also points out the picture of Irene that Sherlock carries around (near his heart!).

Liberty · January 16, 2016 8:17 pm

SusiGo wrote:
Or this one:

http://trained-cormorant.tumblr.com/post/137405875703/atikiosity-if-you-think-a-kiss-between-two-men

Where on earth do people get the idea that kissing is too explicit for British TV? Have they ever watched any?

SusiGo · January 16, 2016 8:22 pm

I think it is directed at people who cannot imagine an incarnation of Holmes and Watson kissing on TV.

tonnaree · January 16, 2016 8:23 pm

Liberty wrote:
SusiGo wrote:
Or this one:

http://trained-cormorant.tumblr.com/post/137405875703/atikiosity-if-you-think-a-kiss-between-two-men
Where on earth do people get the idea that kissing is too explicit for British TV? Have they ever watched any?

*cough* TORCHWOOD *cough*

SusiGo · January 16, 2016 8:24 pm

Yes. Captain Jack and Ianto. I can picture Sherlock and John like that anytime.

Liberty · January 16, 2016 8:46 pm

Exactly! It has been mainstream here for years.

besleybean · January 16, 2016 8:51 pm

Personally I would love to see a Holmes and Watson kissing.
I just don't think it's BBC Sherlock's bag and I can live with that.
Well I could possibly see an affectionate peck on the forehead, if one of them was dead or dying.

SusiGo · January 16, 2016 8:53 pm

If I had to see one of them dead for it, I would gladly forgo the kiss.

besleybean · January 16, 2016 8:59 pm

Well, quite.

Mothonthemantel · January 16, 2016 11:12 pm

Liberty wrote:
Mothonthemantel wrote:
Liberty . I thought Sherlock made the women in tab all quite angry and untrustworthy , I did not notice any of them being attractive or anything to Holmes. Could you expand on what you mean in Sherlocks character or a more suitable thread as OT for here please .
The part I'm thinking of is suitable for here! When they're talking in the greenhouse, the unusually perceptive mind palce John notices that Sherlock has been quite taken by Lady Carmichael. (I didn't realise at the time, but Sherlock has "used" the pilot to create her - this was an actual woman, and perhaps a little like Irene). John also points out the picture of Irene that Sherlock carries around (near his heart!).

Thankyou.
I think Sherlock maybe noticed Lady Carmichael was lieing , his client , sent by Mycroft , and the murderess , so quite a few features of interest there that Watson may have missed . Maybe a reflection of Watsons unnoticed wife's secrets .
As for the watch with Adlers photo it is a replica of the one in the chest found in the opening credits of tplosh , and also makes a weird noise reminiscent of Irenes phone . So a memento of the case perhaps as the photo in ACD and a nod both to tplosh and asib.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (January 16, 2016 11:12 pm)

Mothonthemantel · January 16, 2016 11:22 pm

Regarding the green house scene where John asks about impulses . Sherlock has two , Johns revolver and being attacked by the ghost . The revolver was used in a quite symbolic sexual manner by Moriarty , and the ghost became Moriarty , who symbolised everything Sherlock kept chained up and repressed , like maybe his sexuality. As we saw in the mp in hounds.
Food for thought.

Last edited by Mothonthemantel (January 16, 2016 11:25 pm)

Schmiezi · January 17, 2016 6:38 am

Mothonthemantel wrote:
As we saw in the mp in hounds.

Sorry, I don't quite get that thought. Could you explain?