BBC Sherlock Fan Forum - Serving Sherlockians since February 2012 » Johnlock: The Official Debate

SusiGo · January 11, 2016 3:57 pm

The difference being that Canon Holmes/Watson are episodic in nature. We do not have a continuous narrative with long narrative arcs since there being only four novels and all the rest short stories. And IMO the cases take precedence in Canon whereas in the show - even according to the authors - they do not.

As I have said before - the show is mainly about two men and their relationship and it is about emotions. So I cannot see a future in which they return to the status quo before TRF. We know that John wants a relationship and Sherlock by now acknowledges that he has emotions and cannot go on suppressing them until doomsday. So after Mary having gone in one way or other, what can there be? Sherlock alone in 221b and John back in the bedsit? John serial dating once again and Sherlock being alone and unhappy?

IMO the Sherlock writers have set up a narrative (different from Canon) that has to be driven forward by emotion - they said themselves that they build every episode around emotion and only then bring on the cases - and which cannot go backwards.

Last edited by SusiGo (January 11, 2016 4:03 pm)

Vhanja · January 11, 2016 4:10 pm

I found this one on Tumblr after the airing of TAB. You might agree or disagree with the statement, but it did make me chuckle.

http://iamjohnlocked4life.tumblr.com/post/136704290452/so-let-me-see-if-i-got-this-right

SusiGo · January 11, 2016 5:09 pm

I agree with the statement since I have read more or less all the speculations and guesses about TAB and is is amazing how much of this really happened in the episode. And since I mostly follow Johnlock and TJLC blogs, these were based on these views of the show. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Last edited by SusiGo (January 11, 2016 5:09 pm)

besleybean · January 11, 2016 5:18 pm

I just don't see the marriage in a bad state....
Which might say more about me than anything else, but there you go!

Schmiezi · January 12, 2016 5:28 am

@Liberty and bb, you are both not referring to the meta Susi posted. The meta states that Johnlock will happen because of necessary plot developements. I know of course that both of you do not think it will happen but what do you think what character developement will be the story arch in S4 and 5 regarding John and Sherlock instead?

besleybean · January 12, 2016 6:45 am

I believe Susi and I have had this conversation before and certainly gave me a surprise conclusion.
But anyhow...
Initially dealing with the prospect of Mary being in for the long haul, more or less as she is now(but possibly with child): I don't think things will change very much.
Dealing with the above scenario, but Mary having been totally unmasked as a full-on super villain, responsible for all the ills of the world(not too much of a stretch for some!)...I think we'll see an angry/traumatised John. How that will project onto his relationship with Sherlock, I don't know, but it could be interesting.
Dealing with my favoured scenario,that Mary leaves the series and John returns to Baker Street(assuming he does): well it may partly depend on how Mary departed(which is possibly for another thread), but again I really don't see things changing very much...other than in the normal progression of a close, loving male friendship.
We may see a few more hugs, some more personal and emotional verbal exchanges- opening to each other in a heartfelt way.
But of what I remain convinced, whatever happens: we are never going to see our boys kiss or end up in a sexual relationship.
I think they will always sleep in separate rooms, though I personally don't see why 2 male friends can't share a bed.

Last edited by besleybean (January 12, 2016 6:46 am)

Liberty · January 12, 2016 8:02 am

Schmiezi wrote:
@Liberty and bb, you are both not referring to the meta Susi posted. The meta states that Johnlock will happen because of necessary plot developements. I know of course that both of you do not think it will happen but what do you think what character developement will be the story arch in S4 and 5 regarding John and Sherlock instead?

I was referring to the meta, but digressed into thinking about the stories as well. No, I don't think it's a necessary plot development. I'm happy to wait and see how they develop the characters - we know it's going to be dark. I have come up with various ideas, but they're very much speculation. I kind of hope I'm going to be surprised! I do think there will continue to be conflict and drama - but I don't think the drama needs to be created by adding a sexual/romantic relationship.

Mattlocked · January 12, 2016 3:17 pm

"I think they will always sleep in separate rooms, though I personally don't see why 2 male friends can't share a bed."

Huh?.... sharing a flat, sleeping in two different bedrooms... and then, after a while, sharing a bed? Without any necessity for some reason? Oh, that would be SO Johnlock!

tonnaree · January 12, 2016 3:38 pm

Know this, Sherlock is a bed-hog. fight me!

besleybean · January 12, 2016 4:50 pm

As he always sleeps alone(other than possibly with Janine), I doubt it's much of an issue for either him or anyone else.

SusiGo · January 12, 2016 4:52 pm

So if I understand you correctly, you would be fine with them living together in 221b, sharing a flat and even a bed as long as they had no sex with each other?

besleybean · January 12, 2016 5:08 pm

I personally would be happy for them have sex.
I just don't think that is what is going to be written for the characters and I also don't think it's appropriate canonically.
But yes, I wouldn't think it at all odd if 2 male friends shared a bed to sleep in.

Liberty · January 12, 2016 6:00 pm

I think it's quite usual when there is only one bed. I would suspect something was up if there were two beds and they choose to share one rather than have a bit of space (unless they were drunk or something)! But if it was a case of say, a hotel room with one bed, then of course I'd expect them to share.

tonnaree · January 12, 2016 6:03 pm

Yes. One bed. One large warm snuggly bed with lots of pillows and a thick quilt to hold in body heat........................................what were we talking about again?

besleybean · January 12, 2016 6:04 pm

Our boys who love each other, but don't fancy each other.
And the Canon illustrations show them sharing a bed I believe, or it is alluded to...nothing to see here.

Last edited by besleybean (January 12, 2016 6:06 pm)

Mattlocked · January 12, 2016 6:12 pm

Liberty wrote:
I think it's quite usual when there is only one bed. I would suspect something was up if there were two beds and they choose to share one rather than have a bit of space (unless they were drunk or something)! But if it was a case of say, a hotel room with one bed, then of course I'd expect them to share.

I agree.
And I would find it "odd" if two men share a bed although there is a second one.

tonnaree · January 12, 2016 6:13 pm

besleybean wrote:
Our boys who love each other, but don't fancy each other.
And the Canon illustrations show them sharing a bed I believe, or it is alluded to...nothing to see here.

Ah, but I do believe they fancy each other. Thus, the whole reason for this thread.

besleybean · January 12, 2016 6:18 pm

No the whole reason for this thread is discussing the possibility.
The Comprehensive Thread is for Johnlock only.

Last edited by besleybean (January 12, 2016 6:18 pm)

SusiGo · January 12, 2016 6:25 pm

Nice headcanon.

tonnaree · January 12, 2016 6:34 pm

besleybean wrote:
No the whole reason for this thread is discussing the possibility.
The Comprehensive Thread is for Johnlock only.

That's what I meant BB. You stated that they don't fancy each other and I said I thought they did. The fact that so many people disagree on this is why we have this thread.